# Saying that you're going to kill yourself is a crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749 "2012-04-23T21:49:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/1 "2012-04-23T21:49:05Z")
I’ve heard that ‘threatening’ suicide is against the law. It kinda made me wonder how that works. I guess someone has report, do they just call the police and say ‘Bob said he was gonna kill himself’? Is this a priority for the police, will they rush right out to stop Bob? Once they get him they throw him in jail for threatening suicide. This helps how? What if Bob says ‘No I didnt, dat bitch crazy’? How do the police establish whether he really did it or not? What happens if the person hasn’t said anything about suicide, but is very depressed, and someone calls the police and tells them that they might kill themselves? I’ve also heard that it’s mandatory to report threatening suicide to the police, cuz if you dont and they actually do kill themselves, you can be sued. Is this everybody, or just companies, or what? Are mental health professionals (psychs, therapists, etc) bound by this? If a person tells their therapist that they think about suicide, does she have to send them to jail (or the giggling academy) immediately? And what actually happens, legally, when someone does commit suicide? Do the police stop investigating once they determine it’s a suicide? Who has to clean up the scene? Does a suicide’s will get honored? What if they don’t have a will, like a college student, what happens to their stuff? What happens to bills they’re supposed to pay? Credit card debt? I think I’ve been watching too much Law & Order lately. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/2 "2012-04-23T22:08:46Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > I’ve heard that ‘threatening’ suicide is against the law. It kinda made me wonder how that works. > > I guess someone has report, do they just call the police and say ‘Bob said he was gonna kill himself’? Is this a priority for the police, will they rush right out to stop Bob? Once they get him they throw him in jail for threatening suicide. This helps how? What if Bob says ‘No I didnt, dat bitch crazy’? How do the police establish whether he really did it or not? What happens if the person hasn’t said anything about suicide, but is very depressed, and someone calls the police and tells them that they might kill themselves? > > I’ve also heard that it’s mandatory to report threatening suicide to the police, cuz if you dont and they actually do kill themselves, you can be sued. Is this everybody, or just companies, or what? Are mental health professionals (psychs, therapists, etc) bound by this? If a person tells their therapist that they think about suicide, does she have to send them to jail (or the giggling academy) immediately? > > And what actually happens, legally, when someone does commit suicide? Do the police stop investigating once they determine it’s a suicide? Who has to clean up the scene? Does a suicide’s will get honored? What if they don’t have a will, like a college student, what happens to their stuff? What happens to bills they’re supposed to pay? Credit card debt? > > I think I’ve been watching too much Law & Order lately. Let’s try to take these in order: 1. It may be technically against the law (differs by jurisdiction) but everyone treats it as a mental health issue. Most states have a provision (called the Baker Act in FL, the “321” Act in PA, etc.) that allows anyone to sign an affidavit saying that they believe you are a danger to yourself and you get taken in for evaluation for a short period of time. If you do this to someone on a lark, you will be in serious trouble. 2. Unless you are in a position where you owe a particular duty to a person (doctor, teacher, parent) then you can sit by with popcorn and watch someone commit suicide. You have no duty to help anyone generally. 3. Sure, once it is determined that it is a suicide, the cops’ job is done. They take the body away, you get to clean up the scene. 4. Sure a person who commits suicide’s will in honored, provided he was in his right mind when he wrote it. 5. If he doesn’t have a will, his assets are distributed according to his state intestate succession law. If he doesn’t have enough assets to pay his bills, then the estate is insolvent, and his creditors are out of luck. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/3 "2012-04-23T22:18:45Z")
Also note that most life insurance policies will not pay out for a suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/4 "2012-04-24T01:34:07Z")
Vermont and Minnesota have “good samaritan” laws so in those states you might get in (minor) trouble for sitting by with popcorn. Also didn’t Cecil do a column where he said most life insurance will pay on a suicide if it’s been a certain amount of time? Also it’s interesting in Minnesota it’s illegal to encourage someone to commit suicide. A male nurse was prosecuted for egging two people into online, one in Canada and on in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/5 "2012-04-24T01:55:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Also note that most life insurance policies will not pay out for a suicide. Most have some restrictions like they won’t pay for suicide during the first two or three years, but I don’t think most have these restrictions much longer. > [@Mdcastleman](#): > > Vermont and Minnesota have “good samaritan” laws so in those states you might get in (minor) trouble for sitting by with popcorn. “Good Samaritan” laws are laws that protect those who step in to help and might be prosecuted. They aren’t laws that say you must be a good Samaritan. Though there might be such laws as well. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/6 "2012-04-24T06:08:42Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > “Good Samaritan” laws are laws that protect those who step in to help and might be prosecuted. They aren’t laws that say you must be a good Samaritan. Though there might be such laws as well. While I believe that is generally true of jurisdictions that have a “good Samaritan law,” the Vermont statute is different. The [relevant statute](http://www.leg.state.vt.us/statutes/fullsection.cfm?Title=12&Chapter=023&Section=00519) has 3 subsections: first, establishing a duty to assist those in grave danger if it can be done without unreasonable endangerment of oneself; second, indemnifying most assisters against civil action; and third, establishing a very modest fine ($100) for those who fail to assist. The statute as a whole is often called (unofficially, as far as I can tell) Vermont’s “good Samaritan law.” I agree that calling the first and third subsections by that name would seem to pervert the story of the biblical good Samaritan, whose rendering of assistance had nothing to do with his desire to obey a law or avoid a $100 fine. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/7 "2012-04-24T06:20:58Z")
As far as cleaning up the mess from a suicide, murder, accident, etc. it is left up to the property owner. There are however companies that specialize in crime scene clean up. They have to be hazmat certified and it isn’t cheap to have it done. I remember seeing a reality type show on TV about some people who went into business for themselves cleaning crime scenes. Great money to be made if you don’t mind cleaning up brain splatter and coming into people’s homes while they’re still grieving over the loss of someone. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/8 "2012-04-24T07:30:43Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > 1. It may be technically against the law (differs by jurisdiction) but everyone treats it as a mental health issue. Most states have a provision (called the Baker Act in FL, the “321” Act in PA, etc.) that allows anyone to sign an affidavit saying that they believe you are a danger to yourself and you get taken in for evaluation for a short period of time. If you do this to someone on a lark, you will be in serious trouble. In Californian it’s **5150** a welfare code for a 72 hour psych hold. If the doctor doesn’t think you are ready to be release they can hold you an additional 14 days on a **5250**. This was explained to me by the ER nurse when I was admitted to St Francis Psych ward at the beginning of this month. Fun times. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/9 "2012-04-24T07:33:27Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > I’ve heard that ‘threatening’ suicide is against the law. I suppose it could be, depending on the jurisdiction, though I’m not aware of any laws specifically forbidding someone from threatening suicide. However, it may certainly be illegal by implication: in some jurisdictions suicide, or attempted suicide, is a crime, and in many jurisdictions threatening to commit a crime is a crime. Therefore threatening to commit suicide may be a crime. > [@](#): > > I guess someone has report, do they just call the police and say ‘Bob said he was gonna kill himself’? Is this a priority for the police, will they rush right out to stop Bob? Once they get him they throw him in jail for threatening suicide. This helps how? What if Bob says ‘No I didnt, dat bitch crazy’? How do the police establish whether he really did it or not? If the police and prosecutor believe it’s in the public interest to treat the matter as a criminal case (which they almost certainly will not, as others have already pointed out), then they will presumably treat the matter as they would any other criminal investigation, gathering whatever evidence is available, including eyewitness testimony. If the totality of evidence is one person’s word against another, then it’s unlikely the matter will end up in court. If, on the other hand, there are several reliable eyewitnesses, or maybe an audio recording or a written threat in the suspect’s handwriting, they might decide to charge and try the suspect. Again, I doubt this would ever happen with a genuinely despondent suspect; I suppose it might be conceivable if someone was going around making empty but believable threats in order to intimidate people or coerce them into doing things. > [@](#): > > I’ve also heard that it’s mandatory to report threatening suicide to the police, cuz if you dont and they actually do kill themselves, you can be sued. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t—what if you hear, or think you hear, someone threatening suicide, you report this to the police, and the action the police take ends up severely inconveniencing the person, or worse yet, getting him thrown in prison or a mental health institution for what turns out to be a misunderstanding on your part? They might well decide to sue you then for ruining their life. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/10 "2012-04-24T12:53:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Also note that most life insurance policies will not pay out for a suicide. This is a common myth, but usually wrong these days, assuming one has owned the policy for more than 2 years. Question: What About Suicide…Can Life Insurance Still be Collected? Answer: Each life insurance policy is different, but most contain a suicide provision. The suicide provision states that if the person covered by the life insurance policy dies as the result of suicide within two years from the policy issue date then any beneficiaries would not be able to collect the death benefit. Otherwise, after the two year suicide provision period, the policy should pay the death benefit to the beneficiaries. But, again, check the policy’s exclusions section, since the suicide provision can be different for each policy. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/11 "2012-04-24T12:58:45Z")
I have been on a lot of attempted/threatened suicide calls. No one has ever been arrested. Off to the loony bin with them. Actually they go to the hospital first for medical clearance and then they are transported to a separate mental heath facility. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/12 "2012-04-24T13:11:40Z")
Coincidentally I was stuck in traffic on a bridge yesterday where someone was threatening to jump. I was the 4th car back from the police cars. While I sat answering text messages, the guy in the car in front of me got out of his vehicle. He shouted, “hey, shit or get off the pot” to the would be jumper, which get a smattering of horn honk recognitions. I don’t know the outcome, as a chance to do a u-turn arose and I scampered. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/13 "2012-04-24T15:33:31Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Coincidentally I was stuck in traffic on a bridge yesterday where someone was threatening to jump. I was the 4th car back from the police cars. While I sat answering text messages, the guy in the car in front of me got out of his vehicle. He shouted, “hey, shit or get off the pot” to the would be jumper, which get a smattering of horn honk recognitions. > > I don’t know the outcome, as a chance to do a u-turn arose and I scampered. If that’s the same incident I heard about, the woman did jump. She broke both legs but survived. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/14 "2012-04-24T16:53:21Z")
I’ve been involved in criminal justice in Ohio for almost 20 years and have never heard of anyone being charged with the “crime” of threatening suicide. Disturbing the peace is the closest offense I can think of, and that’s more of a catchall provision anyway. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/15 "2012-04-24T20:14:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’ve been involved in criminal justice in Ohio for almost 20 years and have never heard of anyone being charged with the “crime” of threatening suicide. Disturbing the peace is the closest offense I can think of, and that’s more of a catchall provision anyway. I did some research on this years ago, and Suicide is not a crime in Ohio, so attempted suicide can not be. I can’t quote where I read it in my mind, but I think it was from the old Nisi Prius case law volumes at the law library. You know, the volumes that also cite Common Pleas rulings. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/16 "2012-04-24T20:32:17Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > I’ve also heard that it’s mandatory to report threatening suicide to the police, cuz if you dont and they actually do kill themselves, you can be sued. Is this everybody, or just companies, or what? As per my other post, at least in Ohio, Suicide is NOT a crime, therefore the attempt or threat of attempt is not a crime. Let’s assume it was, in Ohio we have a law in which a failure to report a Felony is a Misdemeanor of the 4th degree. There is no law for mandatory Misdemeanor reporting by the general public. I believe from past research Ohio Common law has ingrained a “Duty to rescue”/“Duty to aid” doctrine. Without researching more, one may be under an affirmitive duty to prevent such. What would be remedial by the Estate for failure to aid is another matter. I suppose this is similar in nature to crimes by _Omission_. Failure to aid/act when a person has been shot, may result in the person being charged? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/17 "2012-04-24T20:56:25Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > I did some research on this years ago, and Suicide is not a crime in Ohio, so attempted suicide can not be. I don’t think that logically follows. It is possible for legislation to separately criminalize an action and an attempted action. This is indeed the case in England and Wales, where murder and attempted murder are statutorily distinct crimes. It’s not inconceivable that, recognizing the absurdity of prosecuting a successful suicide, legislators somewhere (maybe even in Ohio) have seen fit to criminalize attempted suicide but not suicide. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/18 "2012-04-24T21:19:30Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I don’t think that logically follows. It is possible for legislation to separately criminalize an action and an attempted action. This is indeed the case in England and Wales, where murder and attempted murder are statutorily distinct crimes. It’s not inconceivable that, recognizing the absurdity of prosecuting a successful suicide, legislators somewhere (maybe even in Ohio) have seen fit to criminalize attempted suicide but not suicide. In Ohio, an Attempt to commit a crime is 1 less degree of a charge. Say an act is a felony of the 2nd degree, an attempt to commit it is a felony of the 3rd degree. For example, it is NOT an offense to attempt to commit a Minor Misdemanor, other offenses yes. We already have a mental health hold law as the others have discussed. You can not criminalize the attempt of a crime when the crime was not “completed”. I have never read in any state’s law where the attempt to commit an act was a crime, but if the crime was completed, it was not? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/19 "2012-04-24T21:50:55Z")
I think that whether suicide is a crime or not depends on the specific wording of the state murder statute. Some states define murder as “blah blah blah of another human being” whereas others simply say “of a human being.” Since you (the general yourself) are a human being, attempted suicide would be attempted murder, no? Examples: [QUOTE=Florida murder 1 statute] 1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being: 1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being; [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ohio murder 1 statute] (A) No person shall purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749/20 "2012-04-24T22:16:19Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I think that whether suicide is a crime or not depends on the specific wording of the state murder statute. Some states define murder as “blah blah blah of another human being” whereas others simply say “of a human being.” > > Since you (the general yourself) are a human being, attempted suicide would be attempted murder, no? > > Examples: One thing that people around here get hung up on is the wording of laws. The specific wording is very important. But so are the precedents set down by that states courts. I would be very surprised if the statute you quoted was ever used in the case of an attempted suicide. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-that-youre-going-to-kill-yourself-is-a-crime/619749.md?page=2)