# Sayings that aren't as old as you think they are **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [May 18, 2024, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735 "2024-05-18T12:52:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/1 "2024-05-18T12:52:33Z")
TIL that the quote ‘And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.’ is not from some literally text; it’s from the script for Die Hard. Hans Gruber quotes it but it isn’t a real quote. It’s just in the movie. Another example would be “Oh you sweet summer child” is actually from A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) about the naivety of children born in the seven year summer who hasn’t yet seen a winter. What are some others? ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/2 "2024-05-18T13:18:19Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/3 "2024-05-18T13:29:54Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Another example would be “Oh you sweet summer child” is actually from A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) about the naivety of children born in the seven year summer who hasn’t yet seen a winter. I think it might be true to say that this phrase experienced a boost of popularity from GoT. The origin of the saying (and usage to denote a naive person) is definitely older. [https://www.google.com/search?q="sweet%20summer%20child"&tbm=bks&tbs=cdr:1,cd\_min:1800,cd\_max:1880&lr=lang\_en](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22sweet%20summer%20child%22&tbm=bks&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1800,cd_max:1880&lr=lang_en) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/4 "2024-05-18T13:36:53Z")
And it seems with the quote about Alexander, whilst the exact wording of the quote might be unique to the script of _Die Hard_, the notion that Alexander the Great wept when he realised there were no more worlds to conquer, is not novel to the movie - the idea has been in circulation for [at least five centuries](https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2020/03/19/and-alexander-wept/). ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/5 "2024-05-18T13:49:39Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > origin of the saying (and usage to denote a naive person) is definitely older. The term meaning a…well… sunny disposition predates game of thrones. It comes from the idea that our birth season dictated our character. But there was no connotation of naivety, only a tendency to happiness. The naivety part is from game of thrones as in that universe a child can grow up having never experienced Winter ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/6 "2024-05-18T13:53:42Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > never mind I’m pretty sure that one goes back to at least caveman days. \< flees \> ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/7 "2024-05-18T13:57:07Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > But there was no connotation of naivety, only a tendency to happiness. I don’t believe that, although we might be splitting hairs here - I am certain I have heard/seen it used to denote, if not naivety specifically, youthful innocence, which is more or less the same thing. Here’s a citation including a Victorian poem in which the connotation is childlike innocence (and the author of the article linked also states (opinion, of course): > In the 60s and 70s, I frequently heard it in response to some bit of pre-teen or teen angst I expressed in my youthful confidence that in under two decades I had managed to acquire far more wisdom than had the totality of adults of my acquaintance. “You really think no one else has thought of that? Oh, my sweet summer child.” > **[The Origin of “Sweet Summer Child” – The Questing Feast](https://thequestingfeast.com/the-origin-of-sweet-summer-child/)** These two quotes and there weirdly revisionist notions of origin are examples of what I believe to be an internet-age phenomenon whereby people assume that the first place they saw or heard a thing, is the origin of that thing. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/8 "2024-05-18T14:12:29Z")
So my favorite counter example is the Conan the Barbarian line: “What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women”. It actually comes from Ghengis Khan (or at least the author thought it was a Ghengis Khan quote, there is some debate on the veracity of that) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/9 "2024-05-18T14:28:30Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > > > never mind > > I’m pretty sure that one goes back to at least caveman days. > \< flees \> I thought Nirvana made it up in the 90s. \< ducks \> ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/10 "2024-05-18T14:30:55Z")
\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \> How old is this saying? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/11 "2024-05-18T14:37:24Z")
Sounds quackers to me. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/12 "2024-05-18T14:41:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > \< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \> > How old is this saying? Why a duck? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/13 "2024-05-18T14:43:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > > [@running\_coach](#): > > > > \< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \>\< ducks \> > > How old is this saying? > > Why a duck? - Because pigeons cheat at chess. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/14 "2024-05-18T15:30:27Z")
We only been using the terms ‘red state’ and ‘blue state’ since the 2000 election. Confusingly, NBC used blue to denote states won by Republicans (and red for states won by Democrats) on their electoral maps up until 1996. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/15 "2024-05-18T16:09:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > These two quotes and there weirdly revisionist notions of origin are examples of what I believe to be an internet-age phenomenon whereby people assume that the first place they saw or heard a thing, is the origin of that thing. No one is claiming the words Summer and Child were never put together in writing but the saying as it is used presently comes from Game of Thrones. The counter examples are little snippets here and there. It was not a common saying. Certainly not as common as it has been the last ten years. The Die Hard one I had no idea until today and it does indeed seem to be true that while the quote sounds like something literary and is quoted as if it is, it was written by the screenwriter. Calling them revisionist is an overstatement. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/16 "2024-05-18T18:52:49Z")
“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.” Said by Harvey Dent. Whose entire deal is being unhinged and unreliable. And not even the Harvey Dent of the Silver Age comics, the Harvey Dent of The Dark Knight, released in **2008**. Anyone who followed the life of Bob Hope, Fred Rogers, Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela, Jim Henson, or Shigeru Miyamoto would find this quote _extremely_ weird. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/17 "2024-05-18T19:02:22Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > No one is claiming the words Summer and Child were never put together in writing but the saying as it is used presently comes from Game of Thrones. The counter examples are little snippets here and there. It was not a common saying. Certainly not as common as it has been the last ten years The fact that something experienced a _recent trend_ recently is not the same as that thing having a _recent origin._ As for ‘revisionist’, sorry, might not be the right word even, but I have seen this time and again, where a recent and highly popular iteration of a specific thing is stated to be the original, just because people encountered the recent iteration first. > [@Quimby](#): > > but the saying as it is used presently comes from Game of Thrones. No, it does not. The phrase ‘oh, my sweet summer child’ (not just the mere conjunction of the two words ‘summer’ and ‘child’) was in use with more or less the same connotation for a long time prior to game of thrones. GoT undoubtedly caused it to trend. Many people might use it now in the understanding that they are quoting the show or the book, but that’s not the _origin_ of the saying. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/18 "2024-05-18T23:08:29Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The phrase ‘oh, my sweet summer child’ (not just the mere conjunction of the two words ‘summer’ and ‘child’) was in use with more or less the same connotation for a long time prior to game of thrones. [Here’s an instance from 1865.](https://books.google.com/books?id=VAAvAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA3&dq=%22my+sweet+summer+child%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEx5uup5iGAxVv6ckDHWJmBes4KBDoAXoECAIQAw#v=onepage&q=%22my%20sweet%20summer%20child%22&f=false) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/19 "2024-05-18T23:18:04Z")
I was semi-astounded to hear the exclamation “Jehoshaphat!” come out of my mouth yesterday as something surprised me. I would’ve expected “Jehoshaphat!” to have a Biblical origin, but as an exclamation/swear word substitute it [appears to date](https://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/In-a-Word/2020/0903/Who-is-Jehoshaphat-and-why-is-he-jumping) from a western novel written in 1866.\* \*Jumpin’ Jehoshaphat!", a favorite expression of Yosemite Sam, may have a more recent origin. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/20 "2024-05-18T23:18:50Z")
There are people who seem to think the saying “Blood is thicker than water” is a corruption of an **older** quote “The Blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” but the latter quote is a **recent** invention. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735.md?page=2)