# Sayings that aren't as old as you think they are **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [May 18, 2024, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735 "2024-05-18T12:52:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/21 "2024-05-18T23:45:38Z")
I’d say it’s likely the author of GoT used the phrase knowing that it already existed. Of course it is imbued with particular meaning in the universe he was writing, because summer and winter have particular meanings there. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/22 "2024-05-18T23:48:32Z")
“Say the quiet part (out) loud” is from a 1995 _Simpsons_ episode. ---
**Author:** ![MarkF2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5ac83/32.png) [@MarkF2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarkF2004)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/23 "2024-05-19T11:46:11Z")
Getting your ducks in a row? 1900’s or thereabouts ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/24 "2024-05-19T12:00:41Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > As for ‘revisionist’, sorry, might not be the right word even, but I have seen this time and again, where a recent and highly popular iteration of a specific thing is stated to be the original, just because people encountered the recent iteration first. Agreed. It’s even more common, of course, in music — where the young’uns think a popular cover is the original song, or they’re unaware of the 1970s sample that makes up 60% of (and ALL of the hook of) some 2000s R and B hit. (As for this thread, the “saying the quiet part out loud” and “Jehosephat” are legitimate examples that have been the most interesting so far, to me. I use Jehosephat often to mean “person X” in a slightly jocular context - and until now I assumed it was an Old Testament personage.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/25 "2024-05-19T12:52:28Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > There are people who seem to think the saying “Blood is thicker than water” is a corruption of an **older** quote “The Blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb” but the latter quote is a **recent** invention. Similarly, recently whenever anyone mentions “the customer is always right”, someone always butts in to say that the “original” is actually “the customer is always right _in matters of taste_”, but I can’t find the longer phrase in discussion of its origins. The shorter phrase may be too glib, in that it only means to go out of your way to treat customer concerns seriously and liberally, not to _always_ agree with them no matter what, but it is still a maxim about generous customer _service_, not a maxim about only providing the _product_ the customer asks for. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/26 "2024-05-19T21:17:13Z")
I _think_ “Bonkers”, a Britishism meaning mad or crazy, is also familiar in the US. In my mind, this would be a well established expression used by Bertie Wooster, for example. The first Jeeves and Wooster book was published in 1915. Bonkers is first recorded (according to Eric Partridge) as (Royal) Naval slang for drunk in around 1920, morphing to something like it’s current use (again, Naval) around 1925, but not in general use until around 1940. Somewhat later than I would have thought. (Unrelated to this thread, I looked it up a few days ago because I was wondering if it was rhyming slang - it isn’t.) j ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/27 "2024-05-19T21:20:07Z")
There is also “Don’t Mess with Texas” which comes from a 1970s _anti-litter campaign_ and has nothing to do with the alleged badass-ness of Texans. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/28 "2024-05-19T21:35:57Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > I _think_ “Bonkers”, a Britishism meaning mad or crazy, is also familiar in the US. In my mind, this would be a well established expression used by Bertie Wooster, for example. > > The first Jeeves and Wooster book was published in 1915. Bonkers is first recorded (according to Eric Partridge) as (Royal) Naval slang for drunk in around 1920, morphing to something like it’s current use (again, Naval) around 1925, but not in general use until around 1940 I’m not sure what I would have guessed, but I certainly wouldn’t have guess that it is younger than that. Despite feeling approximately that old, its youth makes me feel old because I remember playing a _board game_ called “Bonkers” in the early 80s, and the board game is now older than the generalized use of the _word_ was when the board game appeared. It doesn’t _feel_ like the 1980s are currently what the 1940s were in the 1980s, but that’s what the math works out to. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/29 "2024-05-19T21:38:08Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > [@Mangetout](#): > > > > The phrase ‘oh, my sweet summer child’ (not just the mere conjunction of the two words ‘summer’ and ‘child’) was in use with more or less the same connotation for a long time prior to game of thrones. > > [Here’s an instance from 1865.](https://books.google.com/books?id=VAAvAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA3&dq=%22my+sweet+summer+child%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEx5uup5iGAxVv6ckDHWJmBes4KBDoAXoECAIQAw#v=onepage&q=%22my%20sweet%20summer%20child%22&f=false) Distinguo. I don’t think it really is “more or less the same connotation”. I don’t think that linked 1865 example is trying to convey some kind of compassionately ironic lament for the inevitable naivete of the “summer child” in question, which is definitely how the GoT idiom comes across: > [@](#): > > “You are too young to be burdened with all my cares,” he told her, “but you are also a Stark of Winterfell. You know our words.” > > “Winter is coming,” Arya whispered. > > “The hard cruel times,” her father said. “We tasted them on the Trident, child, and when Bran fell. You were born in the long summer, sweet one, you’ve never known anything else, but now the winter is truly coming. Remember the sigil of our House, Arya.” > > “The direwolf,” she said, thinking of Nymeria. She hugged her knees against her chest, suddenly afraid. > > “Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. […]" > > […] > “I could tell you the story about Brandon the Builder,” Old Nan said. “That was always your favorite.” […] > > “That’s not my favorite,” he said. “My favorites were the scary ones.” […] > > “Oh, my sweet summer child,” Old Nan said quietly, “what do you know of fear? Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods.” That 1865 quote, on the other hand, is part of a dedication with a very different tone: “To you, our first-born, my sweet ‘summer-child’, I dedicate this unpretending story. It will serve, in future years, to remind you of your sunny girlhood, when we talked over its characters and scenes […]” No ironic mix of tenderness and foreboding there. No looming menace of periodic catastrophe and hardship that the innocent “summer-child” can’t be expected to understand yet. A much more simple and straightforward affectionate tribute to one who is, literally, a child in summer. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/30 "2024-05-19T22:26:08Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > The Die Hard one I had no idea until today and it does indeed seem to be true that while the quote sounds like something literary and is quoted as if it is, it was written by the screenwriter. Darts commentator Sid Waddell was using the “Alexander wept” line in 1984, 4 years before Die Hard was released. “When Alexander of Macedonia was 33, he cried salt tears because there were no more worlds to conquer … [Eric] Bristow’s only 27.” > **[Sid Waddell's quotes: 13 of the best](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/aug/12/sid-waddell-quotes)** > > The veteran broadcaster who died on Sunday was the voice of darts, famed for his legendary one-liners. Here is a small selection (Bristow was born in 1957) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/31 "2024-05-19T22:26:29Z")
For that example, I don’t disagree, but the expression, said an ironic or sarcastic derision of naivety, existed before GoT. I realise the article I linked about this is just another person’s assertion of course, so take it or leave it. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/32 "2024-05-20T02:17:45Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I use Jehosephat often to mean “person X” in a slightly jocular context - and until now I assumed it was an Old Testament personage. It is (with a slightly different spelling): [Jehoshaphat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehoshaphat) was a king of Judah, whose reign is described in 2 Chronicles 17 to 21. He is generally treated as a good and successful king. The wikipedia article itself notes the use of “Jehosaphat” as a substitute for “Jesus” in oaths. It dates the first usage a bit further back than Yosemite Sam, citing the spelling “Jumpin’ Geehosofat” in an 1865 novel called _The Headless Horseman_ by Thomas Mayne Reid. I’ve always heard it used in that way, as a sort of exclamation of surprise or consternation. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it used as just a jocular reference to some random person. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/33 "2024-05-20T02:39:41Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Bob Hope Bob Hope didn’t live to see himself a villain? Bob “The American military never made a wrong move” Hope? Bob “I’m golfing with the Republican President today” Hope? Hope not. “We have met the enemy and he is us” is from 1970, from Walt Kelly’s poster for the first Earth Day. A lot of people seem to think he used a familiar quote and just illustrated it, but he appears to have originated the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/34 "2024-05-20T03:33:26Z")
Ed Norton: “As we say in the sewer, water is thicker than blood”. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/35 "2024-05-20T05:55:45Z")
Not a saying but a word: **scam**. According to Merriam-Webster, its first use as a noun dates to 1958 and 1963 as a verb. I thought it went back a lot further. > **[Definition of SCAM](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scam#word-history)** > > a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/36 "2024-05-20T06:38:23Z")
I started a thread on a similar topic years ago when I found out that the high-five only originated sometime around 1980. > [@Is the "high five" really as new as Wikipedia says?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-high-five-really-as-new-as-wikipedia-says/815123): > > I was born in 1982. My entire life, the act of stretching out your palm and slapping another person’s similarly outstretched palm has been something I’ve understood as a mutual show of respect or appreciation. You high-five someone because they’ve done a good job, or you’ve done a good job as a team, or something good has happened to the both of you and you want to celebrate it. To me, it seems ancient, one of those universal human gestures that has existed from Time Immemorial. When I see babie… ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/37 "2024-05-20T11:06:40Z")
Yeah, I think it’s just me that uses “Jehosephat” that way. So it _is_ an Old Testament character. The observation of @Jackmannii doesn’t surprise me at all, then — mid-1800s frontier US is exactly when and where I would have guessed the expressive use of the name would have originated. “Scam,” though — that _is_ a very recent coinage (circa 1960) for such a commonly used word. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/38 "2024-05-20T11:12:11Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > We only been using the terms ‘red state’ and ‘blue state’ since the 2000 election. Confusingly, NBC used blue to denote states won by Republicans (and red for states won by Democrats) on their electoral maps up until 1996. I’d say it’s the current use that’s confusing. Other countries use Red for the more left-wing party, and Blue for the more right-wing party. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/39 "2024-05-20T11:36:05Z")
I knew that “What Happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas” was fairly new, but not as recent as 2003: > **[What Happens Here, Stays Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Happens_Here,_Stays_Here)** > > What Happens Here, Stays Here (also referred to as What Happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas) is a slogan and advertising campaign for the city of Las Vegas, Nevada. > The original slogan was created in 2003 by the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority and advertising agency R&R Partners. The idea was to brand Las Vegas as more than a gambling destination, promoting adult freedom and empowerment. > In 2020, the campaign was updated and launched as "What Happens Here, Only Happens Here." > When th... ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2024, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735/40 "2024-05-20T13:00:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > “We have met the enemy and he is us” is from 1970, from Walt Kelly’s poster for the first Earth Day. A lot of people seem to think he used a familiar quote and just illustrated it, but he appears to have originated the phrase. You probably know this, but the phrase is a play on Oliver Hazard Perry’s dispatch after defeating the British squadron on Lake Erie during the War of 1812: “We have met the enemy and they are ours.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sayings-that-arent-as-old-as-you-think-they-are/1001735.md?page=3)