# SC Democratic Debate: Gettin' down and dirty! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442 "2008-01-22T01:45:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/101 "2008-01-24T03:23:56Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] It’s questionable, and dubious, hence shady. Obama himself said it was a mistake for him to do business with Rezko. From the Sun-Times alone: [http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/184540,122306obama.article](http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/184540,122306obama.article) [http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/184952,CST-NWS-obama24.article](http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/184952,CST-NWS-obama24.article) [http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/595915,CST-NWS-obama10.article](http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/595915,CST-NWS-obama10.article) There’s three news articles in the last ten months. All by news reporters, not columnists, let alone “right-wing columnists who have lied and distorted the story”. [/QUOTE] None of these articles allege that there was anything dubious or shady about rthge deal. If you would like to allege the contrary, please be specific. What EXACTLY are you alleging was unethical, illegal or otherwise “shady” about the deal. Please support your answer with linkable cites. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/102 "2008-01-24T03:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Referring specifically to your post #27, your mention of “land deal” did nothing to address anything I had posted, or anything that Hillary said in the debate. Why bring it up? Because a rightie is sure to mention it? Uh huh. That’s some argument there. [/QUOTE] You would have gotten to the false “shady land deal” accusations eventually. I was responding preemptively. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/103 "2008-01-24T03:30:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That’s a flat out lie. [/QUOTE] Please re-read the posts in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632), particularly the [second post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9344936&postcount=2) and avoid this behavior in the future. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/104 "2008-01-24T03:31:55Z")
So here’s what you’ve got. Obama once paid a fair market value for a small piece of land and he once offered a month long internship to a guy who was related to a guy who knew Rezko. The internship did not benefit Rezko. That makes me very optimistic about November. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/105 "2008-01-24T03:34:08Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Please re-read the posts in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632), particularly the [second post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9344936&postcount=2) and avoid this behavior in the future. [/Moderating] [/QUOTE] I had no idea that such a rule had been adopted. I guess I’m not very observant. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/106 "2008-01-24T03:34:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] None of these articles allege that there was anything dubious or shady about rthge deal. If you would like to allege the contrary, please be specific. What EXACTLY are you alleging was unethical, illegal or otherwise “shady” about the deal. Please support your answer with linkable cites. [/QUOTE] You already have the links. Shady as in questionable. Dubious: open to doubt or suspicion. Obama himself agrees: “It was a mistake to have been engaged with him at all in this or any other personal business dealing that would allow him, or anyone else, to believe that he had done me a favor,” Obama — a likely presidential candidate — told the Sun-Times in November. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/107 "2008-01-24T03:38:07Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] You already have the links. Shady as in questionable. Dubious: open to doubt or suspicion. Obama himself agrees: “It was a mistake to have been engaged with him at all in this or any other personal business dealing that would allow him, or anyone else, to believe that he had done me a favor,” Obama — a likely presidential candidate — told the Sun-Times in November. [/QUOTE] You’re making accusations but you’re not backing them up. None of your linked articles allege anything illegal or unethical on Obama’s part. You seem to be falling back on the fact that Obama said he “made a mistake,” but he was talking about a political mistake, nt a legal one. He did not say that he had done anything unethical. I’ll ask one more time, what _specifically_ do you believe Obama did which was “shady” or “dubious?” Your cites say no such thing and Obama says no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/108 "2008-01-24T03:39:22Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] You already have the links. Shady as in questionable. Dubious: open to doubt or suspicion. Obama himself agrees: “It was a mistake to have been engaged with him at all in this or any other personal business dealing that would allow him, or anyone else, to believe that he had done me a favor,” Obama — a likely presidential candidate — told the Sun-Times in November. [/QUOTE] There’s a difference between admitting you’ve violated the “appearance of impropriety” standard and admitting that you’ve actually done something unethical. Frankly, after 7 years of a Bush White House and 5 years of Republican majority in Congress, it’s refreshing to hear a high-level government figure even pay lip service to the “Caesar’s wife” standard… ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/109 "2008-01-24T03:45:26Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’ll ask one more time, what _specifically_ do you believe Obama did which was “shady” or “dubious?” Your cites say no such thing and Obama says no such thing. [/QUOTE] And for the last time, I will repeat myself, the land deal was dubious in that it was open to doubt or suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/110 "2008-01-24T03:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] And for the last time, I will repeat myself, the land deal was dubious in that it was open to doubt or suspicion. [/QUOTE] And that’s just begging the question, not answering it. In what way was it open to doubt or suspicion? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/111 "2008-01-24T04:05:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In what way was it open to doubt or suspicion? [/QUOTE] Re-read Obama’s quote above. That is the answer to your question. Having said that, you win the thread. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442/112 "2008-01-24T04:30:18Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Re-read Obama’s quote above. That is the answer to your question. Having said that, you win the thread. [/QUOTE] :dubious: You’re not still here, are you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-democratic-debate-gettin-down-and-dirty/434442.md?page=5)