# SC voter ID law shot down
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [December 23, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222 "2011-12-23T22:42:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/61 "2011-12-26T19:04:58Z")
> [@jtgain](#):
>
> My polling place is 4 miles away. Doesn’t the extra food that I would have to eat to replenish the calories I burn by walking 8 miles amount to a poll tax?
There are reasonable and unreasonable demands on a voter exercising his right to vote. Your increasingly bizarre scenarios are an example of an unreasonable demand. Instead of asking where the line is drawn, ask yourself how you would make voting accessible to a homeless citizen who has no identification of any kind. How do you even get him an ID card if all he has to his name is…his name? And if the barriers you put up end up disenfranchising a large group of people who tend to vote one way, how do you make sure that doesn’t happen?
Note: The answer isn’t “That’s their problem”
Seriously, I would like to hear a plan from a Republican on how he will make sure that many homeless, poor, and minorities who are Democrats can easily vote
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### Author:  [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/62 "2011-12-26T19:29:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> There are reasonable and unreasonable demands on a voter exercising his right to vote. Your increasingly bizarre scenarios are an example of an unreasonable demand. Instead of asking where the line is drawn, ask yourself how you would make voting accessible to a homeless citizen who has no identification of any kind. How do you even get him an ID card if all he has to his name is…his name? And if the barriers you put up end up disenfranchising a large group of people who tend to vote one way, how do you make sure that doesn’t happen?
>
> Note: The answer isn’t “That’s their problem”
>
> Seriously, I would like to hear a plan from a Republican on how he will make sure that many homeless, poor, and minorities who are Democrats can easily vote
How many of this type citizen would have been unable to vote, if an ID law were in place? Any cites?
I mean, how many homeless people who have no id of any kind and all they have to their name is their name are wanting to vote?
I’m thinking this is a minuscule number of Americans.
---
### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/63 "2011-12-26T19:31:44Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#):
>
> How many of this type citizen would have been unable to vote, if an ID law were in place? Any cites?
>
> I mean, how many homeless people who have no id of any kind and all they have to their name is their name are wanting to vote?
>
> I’m thinking this is a minuscule number of Americans.
I’ll bet the number of homeless people with no ID wanting to vote is higher than the number of voter fraud incidents for any election year.
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### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/64 "2011-12-26T19:37:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> I’ll bet the number of homeless people with no ID wanting to vote is higher than the number of voter fraud incidents for any election year.
Cool. Can you provide an estimate of the number of homeless people with no ID wanting to vote?
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### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/65 "2011-12-26T19:40:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> Heck, up here the polling stations have the alphabetized names of all the voters registered in that riding. Go to the appropriate desk, give your name and possibly your address, they look it up, cross you off the list, hand you a ballot. I always have a driver’s license ready, but I don’t recall that last time I was asked for it, if ever. While it’s _possible_ somebody could impersonate someone else, or falsely register a name, it’s apparently not enough of a problem to justify tighter security.
I live in a town of some 2500 people, about 150 of us are regular voters that also attend town meetings. Our roommate and I walk in to vote, we get greeted by name with a wave and frequently home baked cookies. There is an advantage to small town America sometimes 😃
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/66 "2011-12-26T19:48:37Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#):
>
> Unknown, but it would have been less racist
So, it would have been less racist to give the racists what they were asking for? That’s odd. Slave owning states wanted more political power for white people at the expense of blacks. That ain’t “less racist”.
> [@](#):
>
> Irrelevant, but since you’re wildly speculating, I’ll do so as well: Making slaves count as full persons would get the racist whites to see them as humans sooner, making the discrimination not as severe and last not as long.
It is not wild speculation to say that the slave owning states would have had more political power if slaves had been counted as full persons. That’s a fact. What is “wildly speculating” is to assume that a group with more political power would have surrendered it more easily than they did having less political power. It absolutely would have extended slavery longer. There can be no question about about that.
> [@](#):
>
> They won’t need the specific section of the 14th Amendment to deal with that.
Deal with what? It was the 15th amendment that gave blacks the right to vote.
> [@](#):
>
> People will realize earlier that it is wildly inconsistent and prejudiced to used these slaves as warm bodies to fill up the census but still not allow them to vote
But they were used as warm bodies to fill up the census. The idea that deeply ingrained prejudices would have been undermined by accounting trick is laughable.
> [@](#):
>
> You’re basically saying "Things worked out! Lets not change history or else it could have been worse.
No. I’m saying that even a casual analysis indicates it would have been worse. Why don’t you map out for us how slavery would have ended earlier and blacks gotten the vote earlier under your hypothetical scenario where the original constitution counted blacks as whole persons.
> [@](#):
>
> Blacks needed to suffer through slavery cause otherwise, how else could they make white people feel so bad about enslaving them that they’d give them all these extra rights and stuff?"
Where are you getting this from? Blacks were slaves no matter what % of a person they were counted as. It would have made no difference in whether they were slaves or not. But it would have given the slave holding states much more political power if they had been counted as whole persons. Are you saying it wouldn’t have?
> [@](#):
>
> Also pointless. When women got the vote, there also wasn’t a hundred years of voter suppression efforts made to deny them that right.
Are you joking? Women were lobbying to vote and fighting against their disenfranchisement for long before the amendment passed allowing them to vote.
> [@](#):
>
> The 3/5th law was created specifically to target blacks and so it applies perfectly to parallels about racial minority voter suppression laws in the modern day.
Only if you ignore the history of why the 3/5th person compromise came about.
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/67 "2011-12-26T19:57:04Z")
Can I ask you a question, Terr? Do you believe, scout’s honor, cross your heart, do you believe that this effort on the part of Republicans is solely motivated by the terrible scandal of voter fraud? And has nothing whatever to do with lowering the number of probable Democrat votes?
And remember! Santa is watching!
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### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/68 "2011-12-26T20:02:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Can I ask you a question, Terr? Do you believe, scout’s honor, cross your heart, do you believe that this effort on the part of Republicans is solely motivated by the terrible scandal of voter fraud?
Of course I don’t. Do you believe, cross your heart, do you believe that if Democrats thought that the these supposedly “ID-less” people would generally vote for Republicans, they would still be this adamant against the voter ID laws? Be honest now.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/69 "2011-12-26T20:08:08Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> Cool. Can you provide an estimate of the number of homeless people with no ID wanting to vote?
Sure. My estimate is about 400,000.
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### Author:  [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/70 "2011-12-26T20:13:20Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> Of course I don’t. Do you believe, cross your heart, do you believe that if Democrats thought that the these supposedly “ID-less” people would generally vote for Republicans, they would still be this adamant against the voter ID laws? Be honest now.
Do you see how one view is antithetical to democracy while the other is in line with expanding the franchise to as wide a group as possible? This isn’t one side wants to disenfranchise versus a side that wants to commit fraud. This is a shameful undermining of democracy.
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### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/71 "2011-12-26T20:22:59Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#):
>
> Do you see how one view is antithetical to democracy while the other is in line with expanding the franchise to as wide a group as possible?
No, I do not. I don’t see how promoting a method of voting that is ripe for fraud is not “antithetical to democracy” as well.
BTW - what was your answer to my question?
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### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/72 "2011-12-26T20:24:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> Sure. My estimate is about 400,000.
Link?
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/73 "2011-12-26T20:26:03Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> Link?
Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there!
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### Author:  [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/74 "2011-12-26T20:27:42Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> No, I do not. I don’t see how promoting a method of voting that is ripe for fraud is not “antithetical to democracy” as well.
>
> BTW - what was your answer to my question?
The answer was inherent in my post. Yes, I think it is the case that the Democratic party is interested in ensuring that the people it represents have the franchise. That is very different from intentionally disenfranchising people in order to win an election. That’s positively antithetical to democracy. The two are _not_ equivalent.
ETA: shifting back to known false scares (voter fraud! voter fraud!) does nothing to support the repugnant attack on democracy.
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### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/75 "2011-12-26T20:33:01Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#):
>
> The answer was inherent in my post. Yes, I think it is the case that the Democratic party is interested in ensuring that the people it represents have the franchise.
That is not what I asked. Can you answer my question?
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### Author:  [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/76 "2011-12-26T20:33:55Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> Cool. Can you provide an estimate of the number of homeless people with no ID wanting to vote?
From [here,](http://www.brennancenter.org/blog/archives/debunking_misinformation_on_photo_id/) according to The 2001 Carter-Ford Commission on Election Reform 6-11 percent of voting age citizens don’t have a state issued photo ID. That’s roughly **between 18 an 33 million** people.
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### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/77 "2011-12-26T20:35:18Z")
> [@I\_Know\_Nothing](#):
>
> From [here,](http://www.brennancenter.org/blog/archives/debunking_misinformation_on_photo_id/) according to The 2001 Carter-Ford Commission on Election Reform 6-11 percent of voting age citizens don’t have a state issued photo ID. That’s roughly **between 18 an 33 million** people.
You’re answering a question I didn’t ask.
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### Author:  [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/78 "2011-12-26T20:40:02Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> Do you believe, cross your heart, do you believe that if Democrats thought that the these supposedly “ID-less” people would generally vote for Republicans, they would still be this adamant against the voter ID laws? Be honest now.
Sorry, didn’t realize I had to spell things out so severely.
No, if there was an attempt to disenfranchise a set of people that are largely outside the Democratic Party’s base, I don’t think they would spend significant time and energy campaigning against such a measure.
I don’t think you can name a statistically significant group of people that would fit that definition.
I don’t think if you can name such a group, the Democratic Party would champion efforts to disenfranchise such a group.
Even if you just stick with the first sentence, how does this make your position any less abhorrent to the basic foundations of democracy?
“It’s okay to intentionally limit the franchise in order to win an election” is worthy of disdain and ridicule.
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### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/79 "2011-12-26T20:52:52Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#):
>
> No, if there was an attempt to disenfranchise a set of people that are largely outside the Democratic Party’s base, I don’t think they would spend significant time and energy campaigning against such a measure.
I didn’t ask that question either.
> [@](#):
>
> “It’s okay to intentionally limit the franchise in order to win an election” is worthy of disdain and ridicule.
Cool. Tell it to Illinois Democrats who sent out ballots to military voters overseas weeks later than they should have, then disqualified the ballots returned because they were a few days late. Or tell it to Democrats in every recount ever that try as hard as they can to disqualify ballots they find questionable (and yes, Republicans do the same thing).
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sc-voter-id-law-shot-down/607222/80 "2011-12-26T21:00:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> No, but keep trying to come up with ridiculous situations that are analogous to the state requiring you to have something in order to exercise your right to vote. You won’t be able to, any more than OMGABC was able to equate cigarettes and booze with the right to vote.
Your claim is that providing a free ID for a voter is still too much of a hassle because they have to find their way to the DMV to get the ID.
I think it is very relevant to ask how, if these people can’t make it one time to the DMV, how in the hell do they get to the polling places each election day?
If the first is an unconstitutional infringement on their right to vote, then surely the state has to hand deliver the ballot to their homes or else it would put an equal burden on them.
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