# SCA dopers--some advice for an interested party? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939 "2002-12-11T03:50:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/1 "2002-12-11T03:50:52Z")
SCA Dopers, some advice for an interested party? My SO has been involved in the SCA for a really long time (well, not really-really-really long, but for about five years, I think). Last weekend, he took me to an event. I’d never been before, but I found it to be, in short, incredibly cool. So, basically, I want to get involved, and my SO is quite pleased to hear that. However, as much as I love him, he’s not really that great on the advice thing. He assures me that he’ll take care of it, and he’ll help me out. Well, self-sufficient bitch that I am, I’d rather get a handle on things myself (or, at least, a basic idea). I think I can handle coming up with a persona (I’ve already mostly done so). The only problem I have is garb. See, I have many, many skills, and I’m smart as hell. I just can’t sew to save my life. As in, when I took my manditory sewing class, I had to have my grandpa sew my pillow, because I was completely hopeless. I just don’t have the genes or the coordination or whatever. My SO _can_ sew, and so can many of his friends, but I’d like to be somewhat involved in the creation, and letting them take care of things doesn’t cut it. So, basically…where can I find ideas for garb? I’ve been searching on Google, I’ve tried every combination of terms possible. I think my persona is going to be 14th century Welsh (and female), and I really can’t find a damn thing…is there any way I can go about this? And what am I getting myself into? Thanks… ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/2 "2002-12-11T04:41:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angel of the Lord \* > **And what am I getting myself into?** I have no good advice to offer, I’m just reminded of myself asking the same question when I attended a few SCA meetings in college. I got the impression there was a close connection and a lot of overlap between the SCA and Ren Faire crowd and the S&M community. Whatever, that’s fine, but I couldn’t get into the whole “roleplay” aspect of creative anachronism - you know, with the “garb” and the persona and the manacles. Just a matter of personal taste I suppose. Oh well, I was there for the wrong reasons anyway. I wasn’t really into that historical period, I was just interested in paganism and I thought I could get myself into a coven. As you probably know, that’s another big “subculture” within the SCA, the pagans. Have a great time! ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/3 "2002-12-11T11:44:53Z")
You really can learn the sewing- and remember, a lot of people at the events also are still learning to sew, so you won’t be the only one in rough clothes. If you go to a few meetings, you’ll be able to find someone who can help you learn. Alternatively, you can just buy a few outfits. You really only need one- or two, if you want something spiffy for court- because you won’t be camping in the winter, I assume. That’ll hold you until you learn. Or you could develop some other skill, like making armor or woodwork or leatherwork, and barter goods for clothes. Plenty of people barter for what they can’t do themselves. If you haven’t already, explore [www.sca.org](http://www.sca.org). There are a lot of good resources there, most of them very useful to novices. And if you post on rec.arts.sca, there’s people there who could advise you on the specifics of Welsh persona. Don’t try to be TOO ‘independant.’ The SCA is big and complicated, and lots of people there love helping new people get started. Just let it slip casually that you still don’t have a decent belt, and you’ll find three people have dug an old one out of the car by the time you finish talking. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/4 "2002-12-11T12:34:04Z")
Being the Middle Ages, you can get by for a while in what is basically a long sack with sleeves. And maybe an oversack. I haven’t done SCA in years and barely sewed when I started as well. My first garb was some variation on sack and overdress - it turned out very well and I ended up wearing it for years doing both SCA and festival. It used this pattern as the “sack” [http://www.ansteorra.org/regnum/hospitaler/articles/fip.htm#All%20Purpose%20T-tunic](http://www.ansteorra.org/regnum/hospitaler/articles/fip.htm#All%20Purpose%20T-tunic) and then the same pattern, no sleeves, cut shorter (knee length) and bigger for the overdress. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Woeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Woeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Woeg)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/5 "2002-12-11T14:14:52Z")
Greetings! I am Chatelain for the Shire of Tir Briste in the Kingdom of Meridies…which in real life means I am the new person liaison and PR guy for a large portion of Middle Georgia. I’m not sure where you are located, but your local group should have a Chatelain who can help guide you and introduce you to the many different activities within the SCA. When it comes to not being able to sew, don’t worry about it! 🙂 There is probably a “Sewing circle” in your local group that will help you make garb and learn how to sew…this was how I learned my modest skills with needle, thread, and machine. The following are some great sites for researching garb. One of my best lady friends does a 14th century welsh persona…you’re probably looking at cotehardie and overdresses, which, in my opinion, are some of the best looking medieval clothes. They aren’t your typical renfaire, boob-bursting bodices, which I tend to find a bit overdone anyway. Anna’s Crafts Links [http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts/](http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts/) The Cotehardie Homepage [http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/cotelande/](http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/cotelande/) Stephan’s Florilegium [http://www.florilegium.org/](http://www.florilegium.org/) The Mabry Medieval Interests Page (towards the bottom of the page, there is a whole section on Wales) [http://www.flash.net/~smabry/docs/med.htm#costumes](http://www.flash.net/~smabry/docs/med.htm#costumes) 14th Century Garb [http://www.adamastor.za.org/chronicler/stormtidings/archive/garb/garb4.html](http://www.adamastor.za.org/chronicler/stormtidings/archive/garb/garb4.html) And, if you want to buy some really nice garb (it may seem a little pricey, but VERY well made; this is more clothing than costume), check out Historic Enterprises. The people who run it are serious living history folks, and are incredibly nice. [http://www.historicenterprises.com/](http://www.historicenterprises.com/) I hope this helps! Please feel free to email me if you have any questions. Yours, Bastiano Francisco AKA Woeg ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/6 "2002-12-11T15:37:48Z")
Since your SO is active in the SCA, chances are he can get you in touch with your local people. From your profile, it looks like you’re in downtown Midrealm (says the guy from the Northshield). There should be people with advice and garb to sell thick on the ground where you are. If you go to your local 12th Night next month, you should be able to find somebody selling garb, and you can get some ideas for the kind of things you’d like to have. I recommend the link to Tempus’s web page that Woeg put up; Tempus also has information on later period stuff. Here’s the [Midrealm](http://www.midrealm.org/midrealm_calendar.phtml) event calendar. Looks like there’s a 12th night in Fort Wayne, IN, that might be a bit of a drive, and if you’re willing to travel, there’s (ahem) Kingdom 12th Night here in Nordskogen (Minneapolis). So, what event did you go to? I was at Boar’s Head last weekend… [sub]mmm… cotehardies…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/7 "2002-12-11T16:31:59Z")
I was at the same event as you, **Ethilrist**! :D. Hell, you might’ve seen or noticed my SO there (at the raffle particularly). That’s the closest I’ve come to meeting a doper. . .dang. . . I don’t know if I’ll be able to go to those events;it depends on the SO and what his plans to do are (I’m shy as heck, so I’d need him there to have _someone_ I knew). I could try some forms of coercion, though. **Woeg** , those links are great. Thanks. I’m not so much worried at doing everything myself as I am about depending on my SO too much. However, it’s difficult, 'cause that’s the only way I know of to meet people and make contacts. I don’t think I really have any skill I can barter with, either, unless people are interested in late 20th/early 21st century free verse. Though leatherworking sounds cool, as do a few other things… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/8 "2002-12-11T16:44:31Z")
So, did you go to the recorder or choir performances? I was the good-looking guy with the beard. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/9 "2002-12-11T17:01:34Z")
I peeked in a few times, as it was rather close to where the people I was there with camped out. I don’t remember seeing you, though…then again, you probably don’t remember me, either, so it’s about fair. ;). ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/10 "2002-12-11T17:36:56Z")
My best friend has been involved with SCA for years now, and has been making clothes for over a decade. Here it is. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/11 "2002-12-11T18:11:42Z")
Mrs.Phlosphr and I were involved for several years and both have garb made from _Randall_ - see **photopat’s** post - When we lived in Phoenix. There is an ENORMOUS Renaissance Fair in Arizona in March near Apache Junction in AZ. If you ever have a chance it is well worth going to… Even if it is just for the mead 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Woeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Woeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Woeg)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/12 "2002-12-11T20:02:47Z")
Angel, I’ve found that one of the coolest things about being in the SCA is the fact that you don’t have to go in with any particular interest or area of specialty…but you can find an enormous number of areas you _do_ have talent in by checking out the different A&S classes and such that are available. Five years ago, I never, _NEVER_ would have thought that I would have the ability to do any kind of metal working. Now, I am an assistant armourer, getting _paid_ to form steel…and I love it! I know how it is to be shy…but take a chance, and you’ll likely find many things you never knew you could do are already within your grasp. Have fun! ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/13 "2002-12-12T07:44:18Z")
Being a 14th Century Welshman myself, I am afraid I have to tell you that the majority of what you should be doing is researching English fashions of the time. There really wasn’t much of a distinctive Welsh fashion. If you’re just getting started, Great Tunics work well until you can find what you really want. But most folks here have already posted some GREAT information. My advice… no matter how pretty it looks, don’t buy from shops. That stuff is ludicrously overpriced. Instead, try finding a craft you’re good at and trading, stuff you make for garb, or something of that nature. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/14 "2002-12-12T11:02:09Z")
I’m inactive at the moment, but I’ll add one more piece of advice. There are people who make and sell garb (SCA clothes). In my neck of the realm (Barony-Marche of the Debatable Lands, Aethelmearc, to be precise), there’s our good lady, Helen, who sells garb as The Bored Housewife (do _not_ Google this name!). She’s at most medium-sized events, and you can usually find more than one person at larger ones (for larger, read Kingdom-wide). There may be someone similar in your area. If nothing else, if we’re similar enough in build, there’s a chance I’ll be in Indianapolis in January, and, if I won’t, friends of mine will be. If you like, I can pass on some of my cast offs, or e-mail me and I’ll see what I can work up. CJ ---
**Author:** ![greck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ab992/32.png) [@greck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greck)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/15 "2002-12-12T16:11:00Z")
My advice: Don’t do it, these feelings you feel are normal, but they will pass. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/16 "2002-12-12T16:26:30Z")
If you can’t sew, start on a basic t-tunic gown. I tried writing out instruction, but they don’t seem to make sense. Ask someone else, but start simple. I like cotehardies, but Tudor allows you to carry your knitting, your purse and your lapdog down the front of your corset. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/17 "2002-12-12T23:50:16Z")
**Woeg** , thanks. One one of my many Google searches, I found a reference to herbalism. Now _that_ could be something I’d get into, seeing as I already make tinctures, massage oils, and herbal teas from scratch. **cjhoworth** , once again, you’ve proven to be just an incredibly nice person. Unfortunately, I probably wouldn’t be able to get down to Indy (and have huge problems ever accepting anyone being nice to me), but I really appreciate the offer. I think I’m going to try to make something simple over break for garb and work from there…I’m already having WAY too much fun coming up with a persona… Thanks everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/18 "2002-12-12T23:57:41Z")
**GO TO PENNSIC.** One of the founders of the SCA on a panel at Worldcon this year said (paraphrasing), “Pennsic is the only SCA event where you can walk in a total newbie and by the time you get through the merchants area you are completely equipped for a lifetime in the SCA.” That is all. 🙂 Esprix, SCAdian since AS XXIV ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/19 "2002-12-13T00:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissla Lissar \* > \*\*If you can’t sew, start on a basic t-tunic gown. I tried writing out instruction, but they don’t seem to make sense. Ask someone else, but start simple. \*\* One of the ladies of our Shire wrote a rather good [article on making a T-tunic](http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML) that was published in _Tournaments Illuminated_ – the SCA’s society magazine – which is also available on-line from the link above. It’s a more authentic version, but a little more complex than the simplest T-tunics, but the instructions are clear and several people in the Shire (some with very little in the way of sewing experience) have made one. The [first couple of pictures on this page](http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Garbstuff/GARB.HTM) show the resulting garment. More of Maggies’ information, including 14th C clothing can be found on her [main medieval page.](http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-dopers-some-advice-for-an-interested-party/141939/20 "2002-12-13T00:15:58Z")
Oh, and I meant to say, Maggie comments that this T-tunic pattern (very slightly adapted) can be use as a good basis for a 14th C cotehardie.