# SCA & RenFaire Dopers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 19, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600 "2001-09-19T15:49:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/41 "2001-09-20T14:37:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamex \* > \*\* > > Here’s what I wish–I wish that MN Ren Fest would emphasize more things that made the Renaissance special and different from both the Dark Ages beforehand and the modern ages that followed. There is a lot of “this is how people did things long ago”, and that is fine and good, but I think a lot of it would probably fit into a “Medieval Faire” as well. Where is Shakespeare? Where is Leonardo DaVinci? Where is this exciting sense of science being rediscovered? Are there Ren Fests/Faires where this is being done? Am I missing something? \*\* Well, since they can’t figure out that Robin Hood is about as period as Albert Einstein, you’ll be waiting awhile… Also, the performer pay at the MN fest is a joke (a couple hundred dollars for 7 weekends of work, provide your own costume) so don’t expect a lot from people who don’t break even once they pay for gas and food and are out there for the joy of hanging with their friends in costume and performing. The mangement is getting plenty of folks to shell out their cash with the little effort they put in, and put in less effort every year. If you love the atmosphere, join SCA, where you are not making some jerk wealthy. SCA politics can be tough, and it can be a very clicky organization, but after a couple events you start to get your footings and find the folks you want to spend time with. (former MN Festie, former SCAer (twice), married to former production staff member for MN Fest, who did the AZ Fest the KC fest, and (I believe, but don’t quote me) one season in TX) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/42 "2001-09-20T14:50:18Z")
One of my more precious momentoes is a piece of the _original_ CA Southern Faire’s main stage, salvaged after it was criminally bulldozed. I’ve done CA South and North, and currently frequent both PA’s and MD’s Faires. My second eldest sister was married at last year’s Pensic. I guess the Faire is part of the family tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Oicu812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f475e1/32.png) [@Oicu812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oicu812)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/43 "2001-09-20T14:59:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Creaky \* > \*\*Snip… > > Tuchux are actually a group based on the “Gor” novels by John Norman. We reenact a fantasy Barbarian lifestyle, with its own set of rules and traditions. We sort of co-exist with the SCAdians and kick their butts as needed on the field of battle. 😃 > > \*\* Pad UP, dog! 😃 How are things with the Chux currently? And as a Trimarian, I had a good many battles with AND against y’all! O ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/44 "2001-09-20T18:20:30Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Apollyon** _ > > Sadly way down here in the very, very, Southron Reaches of Caid we don’t get to do the excellent big events of mainland Caid and the other kingdoms. How far “southern Caid” are you? > [@](#): > > There were a lot of post 1600 cavalier outfits at both events and I felt the explanation I got from the Baron of Lionsgate illuminated an attitude that I really appreciated (and sometimes find lacking in some SCAers); he said that when Lionsgate held its very first event some 25-odd years back they wrote _pre-17th century_ on the posters and many people turned up in cavalier outfits. Their solution was to print the posters for the next event as _pre-1700_. Wait, I’m confused. _Pre-17th century_ would mean up to and including the year 1600 - that would mean no cavalier (as they are, as you say, post-1600). _Pre-1700_ would mean up to and including the year 1699, which would include cavaliers. So they changed from 17th century to 1700 so that people could justifiably wear cavalier? A nice gesture, I suppose, but, as I said, my understanding has always been that the SCA encompasses the years 600-1600, including the year 1650, just for cavaliers. ([The SCA webpage](http://www.sca.org), however, does specifically say the SCA is a “pre-17th century European history” organization, so colloquially and officially there are differences in interpretations of the organization, but everybody likes fops, so no one complains.) And, folks, it’s “SCAdian” (SKAY-dee-in), not “SCAer.” Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/45 "2001-09-20T18:30:39Z")
Esprix, I have it on reasonable authority that they extended the soft boundary to 1650 because there was a significant amount of documentation available starting in the early 1600’s, and, just as people today are wearing tie-dyed T-shirts and bellbottom jeans, finding something in one specific year means it might have been around earlier than that one reference. In other words, if something is common practice in 1650, it may have been new wave in 1600. ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/46 "2001-09-20T18:33:34Z")
Southern Reaches of Caid ==\> New Zealand has a [couple of shires and a barony](http://www.sca-caid.org/groups/index.html) > [@](#): > > …And, folks, it’s “SCAdian” (SKAY-dee-in), not “SCAer.” Depends which Kingdom you are in: I’ve heard both terms. Just like several different ways of pronouncing “chirurgeon”. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/47 "2001-09-20T19:46:57Z")
I’m not in SCA, but I am a LARPer and attend as many Faires as I can get to every year. My garb is, perhaps, less authentic than most–it has to be durable since it often doubles as IFGS (International Fantasy Gaming Society–SCA lite, as **Kilt-wearin’ man** put it) costumes, and stand up to running, fighting, climbing through brush, and crossing (single) rope bridges. I’ve spent parts of several weekends recently helping to build an IFGS tavern at the King Arthur Faire site in Oklahoma–it’s a new, very small Faire in between Tulsa and OKC. We’ll have a permanent presence at that Faire after this, and run some games there. **jpariury** , if you’re in the DFW area, you might be interested in checking out one of our events–our combat system uses very light padded weapons (foam over kite spar, mostly). You might like it, and we can always use new members (especially experienced roleplayers). Email me if you’re interested. Also, some of the DFW Dopers are going to Hawkwood [on the first Sunday of October](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=86843&pagenumber=1), if you’re interested in meeting up with them there. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/48 "2001-09-20T21:34:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **How far “southern Caid” are you?** **screech-owl** is spot on, the [Shire of Ildhafn.](http://www.ildhafn.sca.org/) > [@](#): > > **The SCA webpage, however, does specifically say the SCA is a “pre-17th century European history” organization, so colloquially and officially there are differences in interpretations of the organization, but everybody likes fops, so no one complains.)** It was very neat to see several dozen Cavalier fighting a grand melee at An Tir coronation, I know that. Yes, technically the SCA is pre-1600 (with no start date defined in _corpora_ but often taken to be AD 600. I was mostly recounting the Baron’s attitude towards Cav as being an accepting and inclusive (and IMHO desirable) one, I don’t believe it is an official position – but suffice to say, I saw a lot of fops in An Tir. > [@](#): > > **And, folks, it’s “SCAdian” (SKAY-dee-in), not "SCAer."** YMdoesV. 🙂 I agree _SCAdian_ is more euphonious (and easier to say), but here at least _SCAer_ is more common. ---
**Author:** ![moi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/49 "2001-09-20T22:28:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by screech-owl_ > **SCA (Kingdom of Trimaris)** _waves_ Hi, **screech-owl**. Did you happen to be at Pennsic this year? ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2001, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/50 "2001-09-20T22:58:49Z")
**moi** - No, a little too far to drive, and a very busy time at work. But I did make it to Gulf Wars X. Check your ICQ. ---
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/51 "2001-09-21T02:29:38Z")
This will be my 7th year working at TRF, coming up in 2 weeks. The stage performers are travellers. The king and his court are typically local talent. The beer vendors and the gamers are typically local people as well, working for a contractor of the faire. Sometimes a travelling crew will bring a game. As faires get more established, permanent contractors settle in. ALL of the above work for money and yes, there is animosity toward the SCA. I am not exactly sure why. I have asked, and received different answers. I am curious about the Minnesota Fair. The Texas fair has had to clean up over time as well, but “wench” is still allowed. Tamex, I assume you volunteered for a booth sponsored by your fencing club to make some non-profit money. Everyone who works at the fair does so for money, except for the SCA. ---
**Author:** ![Creaky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@Creaky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creaky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/52 "2001-09-21T04:44:33Z")
**Oicu812** … Greetings from “Voracia” of the Tarn Clan! All are well in the Valley. Had a good War this year, and looking forward to slaying more SCA at Pointless. (Well, okay, I won’t be doing any slaying personally, because I’m a wench, but I’ll be rooting for the dogs!) I’m gonna be there, but only on Sunday morning, because my sister is getting married that weekend I have to be in the wedding and stuff. But I’ll show up Sunday morning to at least say hi to the Tribe and everybody! Best wishes and good health to all! ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/53 "2001-09-21T05:01:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Road Rash \* > \*\*Tamex, I assume you volunteered for a booth sponsored by your fencing club to make some non-profit money. Everyone who works at the fair does so for money, except for the SCA. \*\* [sub]No, I did not volunteer there–not yet, anyway. Several of our friends from college do/did, though.[/sub] Actually, the University of Minnesota Fencing Club (known as “His Majesty’s Academy of Arms” at Fest) does _own_ the Fencing Booth (I’m assuming that they have owned it from the beginning of the festival, or very nearly so.) They use all profit from the booth to fund the club. All that the workers get there is free admission, AFAIK. The people who work there are generally either members of the club or friends who have drifted in over the years. The Fencing Booth is one of the few remaining independently-owned game booths left at the Minnesota Renaissance Festival according to the [Fencing Booth Homepage](http://www.isd.net/fencing). Read here if you are curious at all about the sport that is Balloon Fencing. Where else can you face a friend, loved one, or stranger in the ring in _armed_ combat for only $1.50? Where else does your “life” depend upon defending two balloons perched Mickey-Mouse-ear-like atop your head? There is some of that non-profit sponsorship at MN Ren Fest, but it seems to be relegated mainly to some of the food booths, as far as I have seen. People from a charity work a booth and get money for their charity, but the charity does not own the booth the way the UMFC owns theirs. About “wench”: Apparently, it’s okay to have the word written–but it’s not really okay to _say_ “wench”, especially to a patron. The game “Drench the Wench” still exists, for example. However, the insults used by the “Vegetable Justice” guys have taken a strange turn. (VJ is where you pay money to throw tomatoes at a person’s face while that person insults you.) Last time I was there, I noticed that the insults weren’t as funny and they were, well, too anachronistic…they were calling the guys “yuppies”, for example (it wasn’t like the guys were talking on cell phones at the time, either.) I thought that they were having an off day or something. Only later did I hear about these new regulations from one of my friends. You pay these guys _to insult you!_ If you don’t want to be insulted, don’t play! I plan to go this weekend–I’ll listen for “wench” and other “insults” and report back. ---
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/54 "2001-09-21T11:21:33Z")
The TRF used to have baloon fencing. From the 70’s to just a couple of years ago. It had been run by Nichols games, but it was not a big moneymaker, thus it was dropped. Too bad. It is a neat game. George Cullom, the founder and owner of TRF, actually founded the Minnesota faire, then sold it three years later. ---
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/55 "2001-09-21T11:27:56Z")
We have “Drench a Wench” and “Tomato Torment” also. The wenches have had to clean up the insults. The “Tomato Torment” guys have not. Those guys get beaten up pretty good though, and it’s hard not to be insulting with face bruises, tomato juice in the eyes (one of the guys wears goggles), and seeds in the ears. New this year, paint ball muskets against live targets. Nothing like paintball welts to get the insults flying. ---
**Author:** ![Oicu812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f475e1/32.png) [@Oicu812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oicu812)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/56 "2001-09-21T12:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Creaky \* > \*\ ***Oicu812** … > > Greetings from “Voracia” of the Tarn Clan! > > …snip…(Well, okay, I won’t be doing any slaying personally, because I’m a wench, but I’ll be rooting for the dogs!)…snip…\*\* They still won’t let the women fight? What is up with that??? 😃 [sub]I realized that you were a lady, just wanted to give the traditional greeting…[/sub] Salutations to all within the Tarn Clan. Mayhap we can meet sometime. ## O Vidi Vici Veni! ---
**Author:** ![Creaky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@Creaky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creaky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/57 "2001-09-21T13:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Oicu812 \* > \*\*They still won’t let the women fight? What is up with that??? 😃 \*\* Oh, no… didn’t mean to give ya the wrong idea. It’s just that most wenches don’t fight, generally… but some do. As far as I know, no Tarn Wenches fight, but it’s certainly allowed --and welcomed-- if you want to do it in any clan in the Tribe. Hey, we’re as up-to-date as they come! 😃 Yeah, maybe we could meet up! Are going to Pointless? A bit far for Trimarians, but that would be way cool. ---
**Author:** ![Oicu812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f475e1/32.png) [@Oicu812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oicu812)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/58 "2001-09-21T13:20:03Z")
## Where is Pointless being held? Is it a large event? Anything other than heavy going on? O I came, I saw, SHE conquered. ---
**Author:** ![Creaky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@Creaky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creaky)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/59 "2001-09-21T13:41:18Z")
\*\*Oicu812[b/] Dude, check your e-mail! ---
**Author:** ![Oicu812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f475e1/32.png) [@Oicu812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oicu812)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2001, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600/60 "2001-09-21T14:07:55Z")
Oopsie. That email address is old, that was in my profile. I have updated it, if you want to resend. O [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sca-renfaire-dopers/82600.md?page=4)