# Scaling a mountainside without ropes, climbing tools (Incredible 60 Minutes feature) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525 "2012-01-05T18:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/1 "2012-01-05T18:18:32Z")
[This guy](http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7393496n&tag=re1.galleries) does things that I would not have thought possible. Must be seen to be believed. mmm ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/2 "2012-01-05T18:24:18Z")
I saw this segment on 60 Minutes when it originally aired a few months ago. Yup, he’s pretty amazing. Of course, the other thing that went through my mind is: “sooner or later, he’s gonna fall off and die”. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/3 "2012-01-05T18:46:04Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I saw this segment on 60 Minutes when it originally aired a few months ago. Yup, he’s pretty amazing. Of course, the other thing that went through my mind is: “sooner or later, he’s gonna fall off and die”. Me too. The other thing that went through my mind is how unfair life can be. That’s not exactly the right word, but let me try to explain. If you’re a pro golfer, you can make millions of dollars a year without ever winning a tournament. Yeah, you have to be very, very good compared to the average guy, but you don’t have to do anything the average guy can’t do, you just have to do it more consistently — except for 300-yard drives ( which the current #1 golfer in the world can’t hit), a 10-capper like me hits shots just as good as the pros, except I do it maybe ten times a round instead of 65 times a round. Meanwhile they PLAY GOLF for a few hours a day, stay in nice hotels, get free everything, and make a couple million a year. Now look at that rock climber. He doesn’t just do something better than the average guy, he does things that the average guy couldn’t even attempt. If the show was right, he’s done climbs that nobody else, ever, has done. So not only can the average guy not do what he does, but the second best guy in the world can’t do what he does. And unless he can get an endorsement from Nike or something, he doesn’t make as much money as a 7-11 clerk. And, oh yeah, if he fucks up, he doesn’t make a bogey, he makes a big splash on the rocks 200 feet below him. Doesn’t seem right. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/4 "2012-01-05T18:49:37Z")
I don’t know, I’ve seen/read about free climbers like him before, and I have a hard time buying into the whole “Oh it’s just SO GREAT!” It seems to me more “Oh it’s just SO STUPID!” I just can’t think of a good reason to do something that one mistake will almost certainly kill or maim me. You can’t count on never making a mistake, ever. It’s dumb, not thrilling, and I put it in the same category of playing Russian Roulette, not something to be admired. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/5 "2012-01-05T18:53:37Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I just can’t think of a good reason to do something that one mistake will almost certainly kill or maim me. You can’t count on never making a mistake, ever. It’s actually worse than that. He doesn’t have to make a mistake. He can do everything perfectly, and the piece of rock he’s hanging from can decide to break off at the wrong time. Those steep towers got that way from various sized pieces breaking off from their own weight every so often. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/6 "2012-01-05T19:29:35Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > He doesn’t have to make a mistake. He can do everything perfectly, and the piece of rock he’s hanging from can decide to break off at the wrong time. Still, it’s better than ice climbing. I’ve lost more friends on ice than on rock. At least with rock it _usually_ stays put if you’re on an established route. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/7 "2012-01-05T19:50:44Z")
A few years ago, when I was in Arches National Park, I watched a young woman climb a cliff unassisted. I don’t know how tall it was, but it was nothing compared to this. I think some people are hard-wired to do very risky things . . . unlike the rest of us, who get vertigo just watching them. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/8 "2012-01-06T02:32:52Z")
I read a book about this a long time ago and it made me wish I could jam my fist into a crevice and ascend. It’s like dancing to me; pure expressions of creativity using only your body. (As opposed to a brush, musical intrument etc.) I have a fear of heights and would never do it but I’m fasinated by it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/9 "2012-01-06T03:03:39Z")
I’d question his claim that he is always pushing himself to new limits. If you’re really pushing yourself to new limits, you’re going to occasionally experience a failure. And obviously he hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/10 "2012-01-06T07:26:22Z")
I tried a 50-foot practice cliff in Zion NP once and practically pooped my tighty-whiteys. What this guy does is completely incomprehensible to me. My palms were literally sweating just watching the video. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/11 "2012-01-06T11:32:22Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > And, oh yeah, if he fucks up, he doesn’t make a bogey, he makes a big splash on the rocks 200 feet below him. > > Doesn’t seem right. On the bright side, he could cheat on his wife and nobody would give a damn. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/12 "2012-01-06T11:58:49Z")
The discussion reminds me of your John Bachar who was a famous Californian free-climber. He fell - and died at 52 but what a life he lived. These bright shooting stars among us deserve to be admired simply for showing what can be achieved. > **[From the Archives: John Bachar dies at 52; rock climber specialized in...](https://www.latimes.com/local/obituaries/la-me-john-bachar8-2009jul08-story.html)** > > Bachar climbed without ropes or nets and conquered dangerous routes in Yosemite and elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/13 "2012-01-06T14:14:26Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > The discussion reminds me of your John Bachar who was a famous Californian free-climber. He fell - and died at 52 but what a life he lived. These bright shooting stars among us deserve to be admired simply for showing what can be achieved. I completely disagree that someone who does this kind of stuff (and dies from it!) is a “bright shooting star.” They’re idiots, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/14 "2012-01-06T14:57:59Z")
Is climbing without ropes and gear really “harder”. I’d think it just makes it more dangerous. But if anything, not having to stop and set ropes seems like it would make the actual climbing easier Also, when did 60 minutes reporters become attractive blonds instead of ancient Methuselahs? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/15 "2012-01-06T17:29:21Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > The discussion reminds me of your John Bachar who was a famous Californian free-climber. He fell - and died at 52 but what a life he lived. These bright shooting stars among us deserve to be admired simply for showing what can be achieved. He climbed up a rock. Just because something is difficult and dangerous doesn’t make it an achievement. I’d be more impressed if Bachar had put the same amount of effort into doing something useful with his life. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/16 "2012-01-06T18:24:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He climbed up a rock. Just because something is difficult and dangerous doesn’t make it an achievement. I’d be more impressed if Bachar had put the same amount of effort into doing something useful with his life. That’s idiotic. Of course it’s an achievement. It may not be one that you have much respect for, but that’s beside the point. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/17 "2012-01-06T18:42:49Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > It’s actually worse than that. He doesn’t have to make a mistake. He can do everything perfectly, and the piece of rock he’s hanging from can decide to break off at the wrong time. Those steep towers got that way from various sized pieces breaking off from their own weight every so often. While this is undoubtedly true, he does a climb with ropes beforehand to try and find the best path up the side of the rock, so he does remove a lot of the risk of rocks crumbling beneath him. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/18 "2012-01-06T19:07:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He climbed up a rock. Just because something is difficult and dangerous doesn’t make it an achievement. I’d be more impressed if Bachar had put the same amount of effort into doing something useful with his life. Consider it creating art. You might not be able to appreciate that type of art, and no one is expected to appreciate all forms of art, but it is enough that some can. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/19 "2012-01-06T19:27:11Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > Now look at that rock climber. He doesn’t just do something better than the average guy, he does things that the average guy couldn’t even attempt. If the show was right, he’s done climbs that nobody else, ever, has done. So not only can the average guy not do what he does, but the second best guy in the world can’t do what he does. And unless he can get an endorsement from Nike or something, he doesn’t make as much money as a 7-11 clerk. This is really not true. Lots of people rock climb. I know five guys from high school that could make these climbs but would do it with ropes because they are not as much of a thrill seeker as this guy. Among the climbers I hung out with in high school it was thought of as cheating to use the ropes to climb, the ropes were there so mistakes did not land you in the hospital or morgue. Rock climbing is a learned skill just like golf. If you are a fit person you could make the climbs with ropes after a few thousand hours of practice. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525/20 "2012-01-06T19:43:31Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > That’s idiotic. Of course it’s an achievement. It may not be one that you have much respect for, but that’s beside the point. I suppose it’s possible to consider anything an achievement. If I sit in a chair for six straight hours, I’ve spent six hours doing something. So I’ll concede that climbing a rock is an achievement in that sense - Bachar did something. But as far as achieving anything that was useful or productive or worthwhile, he might as well have been sitting in the chair. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scaling-a-mountainside-without-ropes-climbing-tools-incredible-60-minutes-feature/608525.md?page=2)