# Scandinavians aren't really happy **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 10, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488 "2015-09-10T02:11:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/1 "2015-09-10T02:11:29Z")
Or so says [Kyle Smith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Smith) in this [New York Post article](http://nypost.com/2015/01/11/sorry-liberals-scandinavian-countries-arent-utopias/). He harps on high taxes, belittling the benefits provided, goes on and on about alcoholism and suicide, and makes more of bestiality than he probably should. That, and he complains that everyone is middle class. His sole citation appears to be a book called _The Almost Nearly Perfect People: Behind the Myth of the Scandinavian Utopia_ by a Brit named Michael Booth who lives in Denmark. The lack of citations raises a flag, even in an opinion piece. So does the fact that he’s been called ‘America’s most cantankerous film critic’. First, he’s a film critic; not a social scientist. Second, he’s made his reputation on being contrary. And _The New York Post_ is owned by News Corp. Who else does New Corp own? Oh, yeah. Fox ‘News’. So what’s the straight dope on Scandinavian countries? I’d like to hear from people who live there, especially. (The Danes seemed quite nice when I was there.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/2 "2015-09-10T02:29:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > So what’s the straight dope on Scandinavian countries? I’d like to hear from people who live there, especially. (The Danes seemed quite nice when I was there.) OK, so they were nice. Were they Great? _flees_ ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/3 "2015-09-10T02:51:14Z")
“pig-bonking”?..and you kept reading? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/4 "2015-09-10T02:58:37Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > “pig-bonking”?..and you kept reading? Doing my due diligence requires the sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/5 "2015-09-10T03:42:02Z")
From link: > [@](#): > > So: Why does no one seem particularly interested in visiting Denmark? Y’all should. Copenhagen is awesome. One of my favorite cities. Seems a bit unfair to criticize Denmark for not being in the top ten of European tourist attractions, though. High stakes, much? How come no one seems particularly interested in visiting Estonia? Lithuania? Belgium? Romania? Bulgaria? Georgia? Lithuania? Slovakia? Switzerland (much)? Maybe because not every corner of Europe is Paris, London or Berlin? Sorry about that, I guess. (And speaking of Berlin, who ever goes on holiday in Germany, outside of Berlin? Unless you have an unhealthy obsession with beer and Lederhosen, I suppose.) That said: I’m speaking as a Norwegian here, not a Dane, but it is a bit of a relief to see someone try to poke a hole in the Scandinavian happiness facade, for once. I have absolutely no doubt that the self-reported happiness levels are way higher than the real figures. In Norway, at least, I think there is, well, maybe not so much a culture where it’s “shameful to be unhappy”, as a persistent message being put out from one’s surroundings that we’re the happiest people on Earth, so if you don’t feel happy, you’re clearly just wrong. After a while you don’t trust your own emotions anymore. In Norway, you’ll see newspaper headlines like “Why we’re all so happy in this country!”, which I’m pretty sure isn’t the usual fare elsewhere. Everyone is walking around looking sideways at everyone else, and wondering if the elephant in the room is all in their heads. It feels like a kind of self-perpetuating Newspeak sometimes. Ask Norwegians how happy they are, and they’ll tell you that they’re maxing out the scale, because that is what everyone is telling everyone else. If everyone in a country have decided that the sky is green, at some point you’ll get wary about putting “blue” on a survey. We have all these reasons to be happy, because we live in the bestest country in the world! If you aren’t walking around fulfilled to the max and with a constant grin on your face, you must be an ungrateful brat. And who wants to be an ungrateful brat? Come to think of it, the story about the the Emperor’s new clothes was written by a Dane. Maybe that’s not a coincidence. 'Cause let’s get real: Scandinavians aren’t happy all the time. We’re human. We have problems, too. We have to get up and go to work in the morning, same as everyone else. We struggle with life, same as everyone else. We have problems with drugs and alcohol, with relationships and family, with getting through the day without going mental in the process, same as everyone else. And safety nets or not, “socialist utopia” or not, it’s entirely possible to fall through the cracks and faceplant pretty good here, too, same as everywhere else. Fellow Scandinavians: It’s OK. If you’re not feeling like a million bucks all the time, you can say so. At least once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/6 "2015-09-10T04:30:20Z")
The problem I see is that once you are at the best we ever achieved in terms of wealth and security, it seems rude to complain. Danes do drink a lot, so maybe they’re not so much happy as just “happy”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/7 "2015-09-10T04:34:36Z")
They aren’t really happy. They just have…Stockholm Syndrome! 😉 I don’t know. Scandinavia is pretty weird, but it just goes to show that happiness doesn’t quite depend on the things we North Americans prioritize. ETA: Then again, Martian Bigfoot may be onto something. Self-reporting is, well, self-reporting, with the attendant question of how the patient interprets the question. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/8 "2015-09-10T05:06:27Z")
My Danish relatives were surprised of how good of water pressure we have in the US. Other than that they seem to really like Denmark. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/9 "2015-09-10T08:59:59Z")
Nothing is perfect, but scoring better than most in social index polls is pretty good though. And using popular movies as a cite is just bizarre for anyone who expects to be taken seriously. Going by that brand of logic we’d have to assume America is secretly invaded by giant robots on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/10 "2015-09-10T09:55:27Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Come to think of it, the story about the the Emperor’s new clothes was written by a Dane. Maybe that’s not a coincidence. And one whose angstiest stories are the earliest, and who got happier and happier the more he traveled…\* The subject came up in conversations (Swedes, Britons, and for exotism a Latvian and a Spaniard) and ideas that got thrown about included the “there’s no need to jump too high” mindset and that maybe the right word is “content” more than “happy”, but hey, “content” is more than a lot of people get. - I thought it was a nice contrast to all those artists who became more and more depressed with age, actually 🙂 (too many, way too many). Or to those writers whose travels to exotic places left them shocked and disturbed that people Elsewhere had Strange Customs (hi, Washington Irving!). ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/11 "2015-09-10T12:17:43Z")
Can’t fucking wait until the Michael Booths of this world get over their obsession with Scandinavia and move on to the next place to damn with faint praise. Fucking enough already. Smug fucking cunts. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/12 "2015-09-10T12:39:18Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Can’t fucking wait until the Michael Booths of this world get over their obsession with Scandinavia and move on to the next place to damn with faint praise. Fucking enough already. Smug fucking cunts. You don’t sound very happy. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/13 "2015-09-10T12:41:22Z")
… Happy Happy Joy Joy! ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/14 "2015-09-10T12:49:42Z")
Well we can wade through soem of this > [@](#): > > "So: Why does no one seem particularly interested in visiting Denmark? (“Honey, on our European trip, I want to see Tuscany, Paris, Berlin and . . . Jutland!”) " I suppose because they’re planning on going to a city like Copenhagen instead of a region like Brandenburg. > [@](#): > > …Helsinki often tops polls of the best cities), is also a leader in categories like alcoholism, murder (highest rate in Western Europe), suicide and antidepressant usage Alcoholism : Well OECD data says the Fins drink ~10l/year which is about the same as Americans Murder : Well OECD data says the US rate is 5 murder /100,000 vs. Finland 2.3 Suicide : Finland again fails to self kill quite as often as Koreans, Japanese or Austrians Anti-depressant usage : The OECD data doesn’t have rates for the US but Canadian and Australia does rates/1000 people leave the Nordics in the dust. Should also point out the US doesn’t appear to be included in the survey. Ok I’m bored now. So we’ve a vile little opinion piece that seems solely motivated by the authors exhaustion of hearing how nice it is these Nordic countries. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/15 "2015-09-10T12:53:24Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Ok I’m bored now. So we’ve a vile little opinion piece that seems solely motivated by the authors exhaustion of hearing how nice it is these Nordic countries. And this grumpy Norwegian telling y’all how up to here I’ve had it with my fellow Norwegians being all happy. 😉 This thread is getting me down. Let’s all just go kill ourselves together and get it over with. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/16 "2015-09-10T13:01:18Z")
Like the guy that wrote the book, I am a Brit that moved to Scandinavia. To be honest, the author sounds like a typical immigrant that has gone through the “everything is awesome” stage of being an immigrant to starting to find faults with everything. After that you reach a state of balance and normality, where you realise that there’s a lot of great things, but also some not so great. Nowhere is perfect. The article has all sorts of holes, some more factual than others. For example his stats on suicide rates of Finland vs the US (50% more) don’t seem to agree with the ones on Wikipedia (Finland 14.8 per 100,000 versus 12.1 for the US, note also that Sweden and Denmark are both below the US on 11.1 and 8.8, [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate)). Then there’s stuff like: > [@](#): > > “Honey, on our European trip, I want to see Tuscany, Paris, Berlin and . . . Jutland!” Why Jutland, why not: > [@](#): > > “Honey, on our European trip, I want to see Tuscany, Paris, Berlin and . . . Copenhagen!” I mean, he’s already used two capital cities. In short: meh. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/17 "2015-09-10T13:09:01Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > “pig-bonking”?..and you kept reading? To be fair, he warned that the author “makes more of bestiality than he probably should” and yet you chose to read it anyway. Let he who is without sin etc… ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/18 "2015-09-10T13:14:18Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > To be fair, he warned that the author “makes more of bestiality than he probably should” and yet you chose to read it anyway. Let he who is without sin etc… I’m a bit confused about how the bestiality is even relevant to the discussion. If pig-bonking makes you happy, hey, have at it, I say. As long as you can find a consenting pig. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/19 "2015-09-10T13:21:38Z")
"We have free health care for everyone. Do they call us the free health care country? We hardly ever kill each other. Do they call us the low murder country? We belong to more clubs than anyone. Do they call us the civic association country? But you fuck _ **on** _e pig…" Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488/20 "2015-09-10T13:40:35Z")
I couldn’t get past the pig boinking either. And oh so sorry that everyone is middle class. No, you’d rather have super rich people and super poor people? I wouldn’t mind everyone being middle class! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scandinavians-arent-really-happy/730488.md?page=2)