# Scarlett Johanssen as Makoto Kusanagi vs. Idris Elba as James Bond **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338 "2016-04-16T04:51:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/21 "2016-04-16T12:07:34Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > So nerdsplain to those of us who are no more than casual anime viewers how we can tell which light skinned, round eyed, blue haired characters are Japanese and which light skinned, round eyed, blue haired characters are not. Not being snarky, I’d like some explanation too. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/22 "2016-04-16T12:12:28Z")
Sounds like pretty much the same thing, but the difference in outrage levels is due to this: everybody knows who James Bond is, but most people don’t know or care much about Japanese anime. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/23 "2016-04-16T12:16:56Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I get why the studio is doing it. Johansson is a really bankable star right now. But she’s bankable because she got a break as a young actress in a big name films with big name stars based on big name novels and comic books: Ghost World, Horse Whisperer, Virgin Suicides etc. By casting Johansson the studio is denying exactly the same opportunity to an Asian actress. This project is much a sure fire hit as Ghost World or The Horse Whisperer, and they are depriving some Asian up-and-comer of her chance. > . Only Horse Whisperer belongs on that list. It was the only hit, only one with a big name star and the only one based on a big name book. And saying this new movie is a sure fire hit is silly. Anime has it’s following but the world isn’t really waiting on edge for the next live screen adaptation of a cartoon. That said, they really should have cast an Asian actress. It’s just jarring for no good reason. Same reason I don’t want a black James Bond. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/24 "2016-04-16T12:19:57Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > So nerdsplain to those of us who are no more than casual anime viewers how we can tell which light skinned, round eyed, blue haired characters are Japanese and which light skinned, round eyed, blue haired characters are not. generally, I go by character name. Otherwise, just assume they’re Japanese until a definite reason comes up to say they aren’t. Because the Western stereotype of slant eyes and yellow skin is [not the Japanese perception of themselves](http://kotaku.com/5627268/why-do-japanese-characters-look-white) as done in anime. And anyone can have blue hair… ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/25 "2016-04-16T12:29:17Z")
So, an “understanding of how Japanese animation represents people” is just to assume everybody is Japanese? Thanks. An understanding of foreign media like that normally takes countless hours of viewing and more than a little knowledge of the cultural background from which it sprang. But I got it here in a couple moments and for free. Thank you. Imma go watch some Black Butler on Netflix. Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/26 "2016-04-16T12:46:48Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I get why the studio is doing it. Johansson is a really bankable star right now. But she’s bankable because she got a break as a young actress in a big name films with big name stars based on big name novels and comic books: Ghost World, Horse Whisperer, Virgin Suicides etc. Johansson wasn’t in _Virgin Suicides_? I think? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/27 "2016-04-16T13:09:02Z")
Your right - that was Kirsten Dunst. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/28 "2016-04-16T13:17:55Z")
This is where I throw in my personal bit of anecdata about a woman I met in Tokyo who had a very Western name (Ukranian, now that I look it up) and who spoke English without an accent and in every way shape and form looked, sounded, and came off as “American” to me. Native-born Japanese citizen. I think her dad was US military and settled there after he retired. Now, it’s entirely possible there’s a blonde-haired blue-eyed daughter of an American woman and a Japanese businessman named Usagi Tsukino running around as well. I acknowledge many of the arguments in favor of an Asian/Asian American actress on the grounds of representation and giving Asian/Asian American actors opportunities to gain work in highly visible roles rather than giving them over to already successful white American actors. That said, none of the in-universe arguments hold much water. The Major inhabits multiple robot bodies, and at one point, either was part of or actually was the Internet. For all we know, she was actually born a tall baritone-voiced black British man (OK, so she probably wasn’t born tall or baritone-voiced) who has simply taken advantage of the technology of the time to live the life she wants to. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/29 "2016-04-16T13:19:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > So, an “understanding of how Japanese animation represents people” is just to assume everybody is Japanese? Thanks. An understanding of foreign media like that normally takes countless hours of viewing and more than a little knowledge of the cultural background from which it sprang. But I got it here in a couple moments and for free. Thank you. Imma go watch some Black Butler on Netflix. Thanks again. “Everybody is Japanese until indicated otherwise” yeah. Presumably the head of a British noble house and loyal servant of the Queen might be English rather than Japanese. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/30 "2016-04-16T13:22:55Z")
Watching Trigun right now. Seeing it in an entirely new way. Next up: Cowboy Bebop. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/31 "2016-04-16T13:24:00Z")
**Scarlett Johanssen as Makoto Kusanagi vs. Idris Elba as James Bond** How is this even a debate? Kusanagi’s inhuman strength and speed clearly let her dominate the fight, right up until Bond inevitably activates an innocuous but stylish accoutrement from Q Branch to mess with her electronics for the win. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/32 "2016-04-16T13:28:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > **Scarlett Johanssen as Makoto Kusanagi vs. Idris Elba as James Bond** > > How is this even a debate? Kusanagi’s inhuman strength and speed clearly let her dominate the fight, right up until Bond inevitably activates an innocuous but stylish accoutrement from Q Branch to mess with her electronics for the win. Before long, they both realize their mother is named Martha, and team up to fight the true villain, James Moriarty. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/33 "2016-04-16T13:30:43Z")
And it turns out that Moriarty is Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/34 "2016-04-16T13:37:17Z")
To piggyback off Miller and others: Is there a good reason not to give the roll to an Asian actor? There are few enough rolls out there for Asian actors without white folk taking Asian parts. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/35 "2016-04-16T13:38:19Z")
When I first read about this yesterday my first thought was “they are making a live action Ghost in the Shell? Awesome.” What I don’t remember from the show was if Section 9 was a purely Japanese agency or was it a global agency? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/36 "2016-04-16T14:42:39Z")
[QUOTE=me] generally, I go by character name [/QUOTE] . > [@Scumpup](#): > > So, an “understanding of how Japanese animation represents people” is just to assume everybody is Japanese? What wonderful reading comprehension you have… > [@](#): > > Imma go watch some Black Butler on Netflix Aah, yes, with those wonderfully Japanese-named characters “Ciel Phantomhive” and “Sebastian Michaelis”, set in the well-known Japanese metropolis of “London” - why yes, of course you _must_ assume everyone there is Japanese :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/37 "2016-04-16T14:45:38Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > What I don’t remember from the show was if Section 9 was a purely Japanese agency or was it a global agency? Purely Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/38 "2016-04-16T15:14:08Z")
Is Scarlett Johanssen as Makoto Kusanagi really any worse than Toshiro Mifune as MacBeth? Or is it just that they kept the name and setting? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/39 "2016-04-16T15:56:29Z")
**cough** Gods of Egypt **cough** ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338/40 "2016-04-16T16:07:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is Scarlett Johanssen as Makoto Kusanagi really any worse than Toshiro Mifune as MacBeth? Or is it just that they kept the name and setting? “Just”? And what a silly comparison all round. A 60 year old Japanese movie based on a 400 year old play? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johanssen-as-makoto-kusanagi-vs-idris-elba-as-james-bond/752338.md?page=3)