# Scarlett Johansson Drops Out Of Transgender Role In 'Rub And Tug' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867 "2018-07-13T22:26:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/61 "2018-07-15T10:33:20Z")
This isn’t hard. There are _plenty_ roles available for cis white folks. If you give one of those roles to someone who isn’t any of those, there will still be plenty. There’s not many roles for trans folks. If you give one of the few roles that are out there to someone who isn’t, what fucking odds DO trans people have? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/62 "2018-07-15T12:18:40Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > This isn’t hard. > > There are _plenty_ roles available for cis white folks. If you give one of those roles to someone who isn’t any of those, there will still be plenty. Why are you assuming that a trans person is not equally able to take those roles? ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/63 "2018-07-15T13:56:45Z")
Your reading comprehension is very poor. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/64 "2018-07-15T14:02:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But by this logic, we would never have seen Mandy Patinkin play a Spaniard Yeah, it really makes me sympathetic to counterarguments when my national icon is compared to a fictional comedy character. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/65 "2018-07-15T14:29:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yeah, it really makes me sympathetic to counterarguments when my national icon is compared to a fictional comedy character. :rolleyes: Hey, if I can deal with Charlton Heston playing Moses, you can deal with Freeman playing Mandela. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/66 "2018-07-15T15:21:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, if I can deal with Charlton Heston playing Moses, you can deal with Freeman playing Mandela. Switching from one fictional character to another doesn’t really help… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/67 "2018-07-15T15:38:51Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Switching from one fictional character to another doesn’t really help… You said “national icon”, not “historical figure”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/68 "2018-07-15T15:46:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You said “national icon”, not “historical figure”. The fact that I contrasted it with “_ **fictional** _ comedy character” should have made that part obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/69 "2018-07-15T16:34:52Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > Your reading comprehension is very poor. So those roles are open for trans people too? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/70 "2018-07-15T16:43:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yeah, it really makes me sympathetic to counterarguments when my national icon is compared to a fictional comedy character. :rolleyes: In your mind, which (if any) of t[hese](https://www.imdb.com/list/ls056499701/) serious and well-respected actors were bad choices to play Mandela and why? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/71 "2018-07-15T17:04:40Z")
Of course, the question isn’t just how many cisgender roles there are. The question is how many are there, relative to their proportion of the population, because there are a lot more cisgender people (audience members, actors) than there are transgender people. Of course, I suspect that even by this standard, transgender roles are still underrepresented, given that I know at least two transgender people personally, but I’m hard-pressed to think of any respectful depictions of transgendered characters in film. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/72 "2018-07-15T17:20:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Switching from one fictional character to another doesn’t really help… Eh, Golda Meir was portrayed by Judy Davis, Ingrid Bergman and Colleen Dewhurst among others. I get your point, but I’m not sure I agree. Generally speaking I’d rather have a tremendous actor who doesn’t quite look the part than an average or mediocre actor who does. Best of both worlds would be nice and preferable, but within limits and under most circumstances I’d slot nationality/appearance a step below ability. ETA: And of course ultimately the real determinant is usually not talent OR appearance/background, but rather availability and for big productions, financial draw. Unfortunately economics matter. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/73 "2018-07-15T17:46:22Z")
A while back an actor said a lot of people did not want to play a gay role because people were afraid that people assume they were gay in real life. But he said if you play a murderer do people think you are an actual murderer? In this case no way should she be getting all the bashing over the role. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/74 "2018-07-15T18:14:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So those roles are open for trans people too? Let’s say there’s 100 roles for cis people. 1 role for trans people. Will cis people have significantly more trouble finding a role if one trans person plays a cis role? No. Will trans people have significantly more trouble is a cis person plays a trans role? _ **YES.** _ So personally, I can’t be bothered if a trans person takes up a cis role. Or if a black person gets a role written for a white person. Somehow, I think white cis male actors will still get plenty of roles somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/75 "2018-07-15T18:31:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Ethnicity is not, however. Mandela was a particular ethnicity (Xhosa with a large Khoisan component) not found outside South Africa. > > The statement made by casting West African-ancestral (with likely a non-zero European component) American and British Blacks is “all Blacks are interchangeable.” Goes right in there with general ignorance of Africa, its [true size](http://kai.sub.blue/images/true_size_of_africa_v3-da3dd38e.jpg) and [diversity](http://www.afrikanheritage.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/faces-of-africa.jpg). > It’s a similar statement to [that made](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_a_Geisha_(film)#Casting_controversy) when Chinese actors are cast to play Japanese - “all you yellow people look alike to us” > > Those may not be the \*intended \*statements , but those are definitely the statements \*heard \*by many PoC. > > And all that leaves aside the fact that Mandela is a national _icon_, which is totally fucking relevant. That’s because it’s called _acting_. Alan Rickman, an English actor, played Grigori Rasputin, a Russian Orthodox monk. Or what about Liam Neeson? Irish-Catholic, but he was cast as German business man Oskar Schindler. (AND won an Academy Award for it, I might add) (But hey, all white people look alike. Slavic, British, what’s the difference?) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/76 "2018-07-15T18:55:00Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > Let’s say there’s 100 roles for cis people. 1 role for trans people. > > Will cis people have significantly more trouble finding a role if one trans person plays a cis role? No. > > Will trans people have significantly more trouble is a cis person plays a trans role? > _ **YES.** _ > So personally, I can’t be bothered if a trans person takes up a cis role. Or if a black person gets a role written for a white person. Somehow, I think white cis male actors will still get plenty of roles somehow. All that only makes sense if you buy into the idea that there is such a thing as a “trans role”. I don’t. Trans people are not, and should not be restricted to what you would define as a “trans role”. Those 100 roles should be open to trans people as well. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/77 "2018-07-15T19:10:07Z")
Totally agree. Never said otherwise. Congratulations on refuting a point I didn’t even make. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/78 "2018-07-15T19:19:11Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Or what about Liam Neeson? Irish-Catholic, but he was cast as German business man Oskar Schindler. (AND won an Academy Award for it, I might add) In point of fact, he lost to Tom Hanks — for, uh, _Philadelphia_, as it happens. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/79 "2018-07-15T20:51:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think that’s fair, it has to be “near enough” to allow that willing suspension of disbelief. > Though of course even that can be fraught with issues. Zoe Saldana, a black woman, was subject to complaints that she wasn’t “black enough” to play Nina Simone. And those complaints were valid. They actually had to darken Zoe’s complexion and put on a nose prosthetic so she could be halfway believable. That would have been acceptable sixty years ago. But today? That’s insane. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867/80 "2018-07-15T21:18:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > All that only makes sense if you buy into the idea that there is such a thing as a “trans role”. I don’t. Trans people are not, and should not be restricted to what you would define as a “trans role”. Those 100 roles should be open to trans people as well. They should be, but due to bias against trans people they almost always are NOT open to trans actors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scarlett-johansson-drops-out-of-transgender-role-in-rub-and-tug/817867.md?page=5)