# Scary Anglican Crucifix removed.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 8, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383 "2009-01-08T16:05:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/41 "2009-01-08T23:15:45Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Jesus is supposed to have a died an extraordinarily painful death so that all mankind’s sins would be forgiven. His agony and death are key to his mission on Urth. Are Xians unable to bear the sight of what was done for them? Is it a bad thing if they are unable to bear it? Couldn’t it be argued that this merely underlines the whole notion of human frailty and inadequacy? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/42 "2009-01-08T23:18:57Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I suspect he never existed at all. Ah, so you think he still looks too fat. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/43 "2009-01-08T23:25:22Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Ah, so you think he still looks too fat. Exactly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/44 "2009-01-09T01:31:09Z")
i figured on him being rather fit, in a kinda amish way, as he was a carpenter before going forth and teaching for 3 years. on the st. sebastian thing, most representations of martyrs don’t show the people involved in the killing. archers are out of the frame, people throwing stones out of the frame, nail setters, rack stretchers, etc. people whacking the martyr would be too close up. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/45 "2009-01-09T02:16:52Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Which Gospel writer ever saw Jesus? John ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/46 "2009-01-09T02:23:33Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Jesus is supposed to have a died an extraordinarily painful death so that all mankind’s sins would be forgiven. > [@TroubleAgain](#): > > Like **cher3** , my Protestant upbringing focused more on the resurrection than the suffering and death. Yes, those were incredibly important, but they would have been more-or-less just plain ol’ martyrdom like any other saint without the resurrection part. Right, I’ve always understood the Protestant use of the empty cross as symbolic of an emphasis on the post-resurrection-centered theology, emphasizing the risen Christ and the born-anew worshipper, in a move away from what was perceived as a Catholic overemphasis on the whole “YOU did THIS to JESUS!” guilt thing. Besides, there is also the school of thought (IIRC many Orthodox Christians tends in this direction) that what was specially pointed about the Christ’s death being by crucifixion was NOT that is was so extraordinarily painful and extreme in forms and methods (Mel Gibson nothwitstanding) but that it was so very _vulgar_, humiliating, demeaning. To have your tortured body stuck to a post to hang there naked exposed to the elements until you died of shock was a form of execution for common criminals, for rebellious slaves. In this school of thought the crucifix signifies to look at how The Son of God Himself allowed himself to be brought down low, as low as any mortal could be brought down, to meet death as the most wretched would meet it. In this approach, the physical pain involved is an element of the passion but there is no need to dwell upon horror to the point you sicken your audience. That said, I looked at it and thought to myself, eh, could have been far worse. I gues I too find it an acceptable compromise to keep the (IMO, really not so) scary crucifix on display, but not as centerpiece of the place of worship. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/47 "2009-01-09T02:45:34Z")
Meh-that’s not that bad. It’s actually rather talented. It was always the really graphic ones that scared me as a kid. Yes, I know, it’s Jesus and all, but kids don’t think of that. I always preferred nice, risen Jesus, showing his hands to everyone. “Hey, check it out, dudes! Am I hardcore, or what?” ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/48 "2009-01-09T02:47:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Jesus is supposed to have a died an extraordinarily painful death so that all mankind’s sins would be forgiven. His agony and death are key to his mission on Urth. Are Xians unable to bear the sight of what was done for them? Okay, uh, no, you are wrong, Scumpup. Christianity is not about the Crucifixion, it’s about the Resurrection and the Ascension. Unfortunately, you can’t get to second and third parts without going through the first part, so it has to be there. But cults and cultists (including Mel Gibson) who dwell on the first of the three steps do a horrible disservice to Christianity. The idea of the Crucifixion isn’t necessarily that it was such a horrible way to die (though it was) but that it was the only way Jesus could be killed (executed by The Authorities) in such a way as to be sacrificed as the “Lamb of God.” If electricity had been invented, the Romans would have killed him in the electric chair. Thank God it hadn’t – imagine all those cathedrals topped with Ol’ Sparky! The greatest “cross” in the world is “[Christ the Redeemer](http://www.copacabana.info/christ-the-redeemer.html)” statue, which overlooks Rio de Janeiro. It’s called a “Christ ascendant” crucifix. And that, my friend, is what Christianity is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/49 "2009-01-09T03:10:34Z")
I’m not sure, but I think we had a picture of that on the cover of an art book when I was a kid. Never found it particularly frightening. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/50 "2009-01-09T14:23:36Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Look, matey, I know a dead Savior when I see one, and I’m looking at one right now. The only reason he’s sitting on his perch is because he’s been _nailed_ there! Thank you, thank you, thank you! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/51 "2009-01-09T14:23:44Z")
> [@Idlewild](#): > > I’m not sure, but I think we had a picture of that on the cover of an art book when I was a kid. Never found it particularly frightening. No, but then again it was on the cover of an art book, not looming over you at church. Btw, good to see we can’t have a discussion on the aesthetics of a Crucifix without the Usual Suspects nattering about “Jesus didn’t have it so bad… if he existed.” ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/52 "2009-01-09T14:36:02Z")
> [@Sunrazor](#): > > Okay, uh, no, you are wrong, Scumpup. Christianity is not about the Crucifixion, it’s about the Resurrection and the Ascension. Unfortunately, you can’t get to second and third parts without going through the first part, so it has to be there. But cults and cultists (including Mel Gibson) who dwell on the first of the three steps do a horrible disservice to Christianity. The idea of the Crucifixion isn’t necessarily that it was such a horrible way to die (though it was) but that it was the only way Jesus could be killed (executed by The Authorities) in such a way as to be sacrificed as the “Lamb of God.” If electricity had been invented, the Romans would have killed him in the electric chair. Thank God it hadn’t – imagine all those cathedrals topped with Ol’ Sparky! The greatest “cross” in the world is “[Christ the Redeemer](http://www.copacabana.info/christ-the-redeemer.html)” statue, which overlooks Rio de Janeiro. It’s called a “Christ ascendant” crucifix. And that, my friend, is what Christianity is all about. Who made you the Head Xian? BTW, I don’t have a clue who you are, so I am not your friend. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/53 "2009-01-09T15:30:56Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Btw, good to see we can’t have a discussion on the aesthetics of a Crucifix without the Usual Suspects nattering about “Jesus didn’t have it so bad… if he existed.” Funny, I’m usually one of the first to remind folk of the tenuous evidence of Jesus’ existence (not to mention his divinity), but I didn’t discern much in this thread. Would you be so kind as to remind me where it occurred? All I saw was an isolated comment, expressing a personal opinion in the last line of a single. If that is what you got out of this thread which has now reached 2 pages, I suggest it says more about you than “U.S.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/54 "2009-01-09T15:59:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Meh-that’s not that bad. It’s actually rather talented. It was always the really graphic ones that scared me as a kid. Yes, I know, it’s Jesus and all, but kids don’t think of that. I always preferred nice, risen Jesus, showing his hands to everyone. “Hey, check it out, dudes! Am I hardcore, or what?” At the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, on the campus of Catholic U. in Washington DC: [http://vivificat.cybercatholics.com/images/National%20Shrine%204.jpg](http://vivificat.cybercatholics.com/images/National%20Shrine%204.jpg) My brother called this “The I’m-Gonna-Kick-Your-Ass Jesus” ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/55 "2009-01-09T16:04:01Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > At the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, on the campus of Catholic U. in Washington DC: > > [http://vivificat.cybercatholics.com/images/National%20Shrine%204.jpg](http://vivificat.cybercatholics.com/images/National%20Shrine%204.jpg) > > My brother called this “The I’m-Gonna-Kick-Your-Ass Jesus” In that picture, Jesus looks rather like some illustrations of Hindu deities that I have seen. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/56 "2009-01-09T16:14:34Z")
The next time I happen to be in a New Orleans church, I’ll try to snap some photos of some really gruesome art for y’all. I’m trying to recall which church it is that has the Stations of the Cross that used to scare the living hell out of me when I was a kid. It might be St. Leo the Great in Gentilly, not sure. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/57 "2009-01-09T16:20:06Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Oh please- where’s the fun in that? 😉 > > I think it’s an extraordinary piece of sculpture. It reminds me of one of my favorites, found in the duomo museum in Florence, Italy- [Donatello’s Mary Magdalene](http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/italy/florence/duomomuseo/0005ps.jpg). In person, it is one of the most haunting sculptures I have ever seen- her feet seem to cling to the ground, and her face is serene but so haggard… It’s brilliant. Not religious but if you like that one you may also like the [The Famine Memorial](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/2844679995_d09d7488b1.jpg?v=0) in Dublin (more - [Famine Memorial | Flickr](http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbliss/sets/72157600031130957/)). They are set amoungst a new Financial Centre and have the new “big glass cages” of modern and hopefully Ireland all around them. They never fail to move me when I walk past them. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/58 "2009-01-09T17:10:40Z")
Holy crap, **yojimbo** , thank you! That is awesome. Reminds me a bit of the Holocaust memorial in San Francisco, up on the hill by the Legion of Honor. One white plaster-looking gaunt figure is standing at the wire, looking down at the city, while behind him rests a tangle of bodies. Haunting. Edit- and I followed their path to the Toronto installation in Ireland Park. Wow. Thanks again… ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/59 "2009-01-09T18:31:43Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Btw, good to see we can’t have a discussion on the aesthetics of a Crucifix without the Usual Suspects nattering about “Jesus didn’t have it so bad… if he existed.” Well, until the other suspects started nattering about how they know what Jesus looked like, the question did not come up. Who said he “didn’t have it so bad” if he existed? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383/60 "2009-01-09T19:01:01Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Who said he “didn’t have it so bad” if he existed? Someone tossed of a comment along the lines of “he suffered for 3 days but his followers can’t get over it 2 millenia later.” I think he’s grasping at straws, but it wouldn’t be the first time a believer cried persecution to set the agenda. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scary-anglican-crucifix-removed/480383.md?page=4)