# Scenes where "bad guy" shows (s)he's not a hypocrite by taking consequences themselves. (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936 "2019-04-23T13:37:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/1 "2019-04-23T13:37:21Z")
I’m interested in finding scenes where character A, who is apparently the bad guy, is suggesting that character B needs to take the consequences of something they’ve done. You think that A would not take that responsibility him/herself and is being hypocritical but later it’s clear they would and they do. Two I can think of: In _Star Trek: TNG_ Wesley’s areobatics group has an accident, and the guy (played by actor, and the original template for Tom Paris) in charge pressures him to take one for the team. You think he’s just covering his back, but when Wesley chooses not to, NotTomParis willingly takes the full consequences himself. In _In Bruges_ one of the main guys kills a child accidentally. His boss declares that a death sentence. Later when the boss kills a midget who appears to be a child, he doesn’t hesitate and kills himself. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/2 "2019-04-23T13:46:01Z")
_Les Miserables_. Javert is a stickler for upholding the law to the letter. When he is caught between the dilemma of letting Jean Valjean go free (after Valjean acted honorably) and his duty to the law, he cannot resolve the two, so, in order not to carry out his duty, he drowns himself. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/3 "2019-04-23T14:10:22Z")
John Lester’s **The Three Musketeers** (1973). Milady: “I do not like to lose.” Richelieu: “As you wish, milady. But when you do, try to do so with a becoming grace.” Later, after the musketeers have foiled his plotting - D’Artagnan: “Begging you pardon, your Eminence. I have a warrant.” Richelieu: “By whose hand? The Queen cannot; the King would not.” D: “By your hand, Your Eminence.” (hands over warrant) “By my hand and for the good of the State…” R: “…the bearer has done what has been done. Richelieu.” (taps paper) “One should be careful about what one writes…and to who one gives it.” (tears up warrant) “This is a commission in the King’s Musketeers. The name is blank, but it is to you I give it. You and your friends are free to go.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/4 "2019-04-23T15:13:39Z")
Depending on how you see things in _Watchmen_, the way Rorschach (if you accept that he’s a bad guy), stands there and takes it from Dr. Manhattan at the end could be seen as acknowledging he has to do die for what he’s done, or rather for what he might reveal if given the chance. He certainly seems to accept the consequences of all that has come before, even though it means his death. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/5 "2019-04-23T16:32:51Z")
Isn’t it a cliche of the British cosy mystery that the murderer "does the right thing’ and commits suicide once found out? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/6 "2019-04-23T16:40:40Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Isn’t it a cliche of the British cosy mystery that the murderer "does the right thing’ and commits suicide once found out? Hm, I don’t recall this in any of the cozies that I’ve read. This cliche comes from the British military – when some officer has disgraced himself and his unit in some way (diddled the Colonel’s wife, stolen the mess funds, spied for the enemy), in order to avoid scandal, he is left alone in a room with a pistol and one bullet. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/7 "2019-04-23T18:01:30Z")
In _Spinning Silver_ by Naomi Novik, this happens repeatedly with the Staryk King. He imposes impossible tasks, but if someone can perform them by what the reader might term “cheating”, he still gives the full reward. When he is tricked into battling a demon (and loses), he is not offended that he’s been betrayed. He acknowledges that he has insulted the betrayer repeatedly, and accepts the consequences of his actions. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/8 "2019-04-23T18:06:27Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Hm, I don’t recall this in any of the cozies that I’ve read. This cliche comes from the British military – when some officer has disgraced himself and his unit in some way (diddled the Colonel’s wife, stolen the mess funds, spied for the enemy), in order to avoid scandal, he is left alone in a room with a pistol and one bullet. Didn’t the killer do this in _The Murder of Roger Ackroyd_? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/9 "2019-04-23T18:26:55Z")
Nomad from Star Trek, _The Changeling_ When Nomad declares that its directive to sterilize imperfections allows no exceptions, Kirk points out that Nomad itself is imperfect, since it has mistaken Captain Kirk for its true creator Roykirk. He then claims that Nomad has committed two other errors, by not discovering its own mistake, and by not sterilizing itself as imperfect. Nomad begins to analyze the implications of Kirk’s claims, a process that causes noticeable stress to its systems. Kirk and Spock then transport it to deep space where it explodes in a puff of logic. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/10 "2019-04-23T18:30:49Z")
In _The Postman_, Kevin Costner challenges the big bad general to a duel for control over his army, which was one of the ground rules that the enemy had laid out: anyone could take over by besting him in a duel. And the general agrees rather than having his henchmen simply kill The Postman. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/11 "2019-04-23T19:04:20Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > In _The Postman_, Kevin Costner challenges the big bad general to a duel for control over his army, which was one of the ground rules that the enemy had laid out: anyone could take over by besting him in a duel. And the general agrees rather than having his henchmen simply kill The Postman. “You always said any one of us could challenge you, Butch.” “That’s because I figured none of you would do it!” ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/12 "2019-04-23T19:09:02Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Didn’t the killer do this in _The Murder of Roger Ackroyd_? Yes, and an even stronger example from Christie is _And Then There Were None_, where the judge has been carrying out vigilante justice against the other “guests,” then finally vigilantes himself to death. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/13 "2019-04-23T19:58:35Z")
In my favorite flop Superhero series, _Once a Hero_, the schoolyard bully was extorting protection money: “pay me and you won’t get hurt.” One boy mouths off after paying the money and the bully’s henchman knocks him down. The bully gives some of the money back calling it a “rebate” for hurting him. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/14 "2019-04-23T20:00:46Z")
On a more whimsical note, there’s one of these moments at the end of the joyous **The Beiderbecke Affair** (known in the US?) where the grizzled old (corrupt) career cop Chief Superintendent Forrest is brought to justice by the young snot Sgt Hobson. The confrontation between the two ends with Forrest offering his hand: “Well done, Sergeant” “Thank you, Sir.” “I like to see my lads doing well.” j ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/15 "2019-04-23T20:07:58Z")
[Harry in In Bruges is clearly the villain and he lives up to his principles.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48_ks9Q2EmY) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/16 "2019-04-23T20:12:38Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > In _Spinning Silver_ by Naomi Novik, this happens repeatedly with the Staryk King. He imposes impossible tasks, but if someone can perform them by what the reader might term “cheating”, he still gives the full reward. > > When he is tricked into battling a demon (and loses), he is not offended that he’s been betrayed. He acknowledges that he has insulted the betrayer repeatedly, and accepts the consequences of his actions. Great example–the character’s adherence to his code is both infuriating and wonderful, makes him feel very fey. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/17 "2019-04-24T23:59:10Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > John Lester’s **The Three Musketeers** (1973). > > Milady: “I do not like to lose.” > Richelieu: “As you wish, milady. But when you do, try to do so with a becoming grace.” > > Later, after the musketeers have foiled his plotting - > > D’Artagnan: “Begging you pardon, your Eminence. I have a warrant.” > Richelieu: “By whose hand? The Queen cannot; the King would not.” > D: “By your hand, Your Eminence.” (hands over warrant) “By my hand and for the good of the State…” > R: “…the bearer has done what has been done. Richelieu.” (taps paper) “One should be careful about what one writes…and to who one gives it.” (tears up warrant) “This is a commission in the King’s Musketeers. The name is blank, but it is to you I give it. You and your friends are free to go.” That is a great, great movie. Far outstrips any other Musketeer movie before or since. (But wasn’t it Richard Lester?) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/18 "2019-04-25T00:15:27Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Yes, and an even stronger example from Christie is _And Then There Were None_, where the judge has been carrying out vigilante justice against the other “guests,” then finally vigilantes himself to death. Villains also off themselves at the end of Conan Doyle’s “The Adventure of the Golden Pince-Nez” and Ellery Queen’s _The Chinese Orange Mystery_. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/19 "2019-04-25T00:27:21Z")
I’ve been reading Francis Vivian’s **Inspector Knollis** series. In eight of the ten books, the murderer offs himself when his guilt is revealed. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936/20 "2019-04-25T00:31:07Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > That is a great, great movie. Far outstrips any other Musketeer movie before or since. (But wasn’t it Richard Lester?) Yes, yes it was. I blame the lack of coffee/alcohol, 6-5 and pick 'em. By far the best movie adaptation of the books. Filled with skilled and experienced fencers, too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scenes-where-bad-guy-shows-s-hes-not-a-hypocrite-by-taking-consequences-themselves-spoilers/832936.md?page=2)