# Schadenfreude as a story-line element **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 28, 2000, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548 "2000-02-28T22:19:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2000, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/1 "2000-02-28T22:19:00Z")
The word, of course, literally means “harm-joy.” It refers to the alleged appeal of someone else’s misfortune or tragedy being a source of humor or delight to others. I submit that this was the basis of appeal for TV dramas such as _Dallas_ and _Dynasty,_ and movies such as the recent one involving a hapless man forced to help in a jewel heist; I think _Reindeer_ was part of the title. Anyway, near as I can figure, it’s the very fact that the story line is based primarily on the appeal of cruelty, sadism, violence, and brutality to the viewers. Am I correct? I have recently stated that, given the choice, I would rather be deaf and blind than go to the movies. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/2 "2000-02-29T05:51:00Z")
Pain is what humor is all about, so how far do you want to retreat? We watch the the pain of others because we identify with it. We seek solutions in other’s misery because of our own failure to deal with it ourselves. We are violent species, also, and I think it better that we do violence by proxy than by direct action. Don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/3 "2000-02-29T21:15:00Z")
There is no story without conflict, and there is no conflict without harm or the threat of harm. Therefore, harm is necessary to story. Of course, that totally begs the question of whether or not the conflict portrayed is one in which we take pleasure from the pain of others or one in which we sympathize with the characters and take pleasure in their eventual success in defeating their foe. ---
**Author:** ![SqrlCub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SqrlCub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SqrlCub)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/4 "2000-02-29T21:21:00Z")
I have had the best shadenfreude news recently. (I actually use this word in my regular vocabulary.) Anyway, my ex-roomate §Rick had his lungs collapse, develop Pleurasy (sp?), and almost die from a diabetic coma (incidently he didn’t know he had diabetes) a couple of weeks ago. I was so happy and was really hoping he was going to die. Needless to say I really hated him. He was such a bastard that everyone I currently know that also knows him was ecstatic to hear his horrible news. Anyway, I won’t talk more of it right now. HUGS! Sqrl * * * [SqrlCub’s Arizona Adventure](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005351.html) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/5 "2000-03-01T19:18:00Z")
To Sqrl Club; I could not do it that way. When I was a kid my father took me to see _Man of a Thousand Faces,_ the story of silent-screen actor Lon Chaney. Perhaps most people seeing this movie today would think it schmaltzy; it was sad for me most of the way through–and I cried at the end, after the deathbed scene. That’s why I said what I said about movies in the OP. This, among other things, has pretty much obliterated my social contacts. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2000, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/6 "2000-03-03T23:15:00Z")
Further comment about _Independence Day:_ I did not go see this movie–I refused to, after seeing the ads. In any case, a local movie critic went to see it; and in a scene where, as he said, aliens destroyed Manhattan, the audience actually cheered! OK, maybe movies and TV use _schadenfreude_ as an “anodyne” of sorts; but to me it suggestes that people are no damn good. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2000, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/7 "2000-03-04T03:53:00Z")
[Moderator Hat: ON] Well, I hate to be a harm-joy, but I see no signs of a debate here. So I’m sending it off to MPSIMS. * * * David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator [Moderator Hat: OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2000, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/8 "2000-03-04T12:14:00Z")
It’s possible that the audience was not cheering the destruction of Manhattan, but rather the awesome FX. People cheered at Twister, too; that doesn’t mean everyone hates Kansas. * * * If life were always like this…if they took your guns and left this stuff…we’d live a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/9 "2000-03-04T20:34:00Z")
Rilchiam, does that mean movie audiences consist entirely of budding talent scouts or film critics? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2000, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/10 "2000-03-04T23:41:00Z")
Doesn’t mean either. Just means that people cheer when they know they’re getting their money’s worth. When I pay nine bucks, I want to be entertained. * * * If life were always like this…if they took your guns and left this stuff…we’d live a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2000, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/11 "2000-03-04T23:58:00Z")
Interesting topic. I remember seeing (What is that movie, a comedy about nuclear war, black and white, came out back in the 50’s I think, had the actor who played in the Pink Panther movies, has the catchy scene where the cowboy guy rides a nuclear bomb as it is dropped out of a plane, somebody help me here please my memory is drawing all blanks). I remember it really struck me while watching the said scene where the guy is trying to drop the nuclear bomb, and when he finally gets it to release, he is riding it like a cowboy at a rodeo. That scene struck me, because I was in a room full of laughing teenagers and all I could think was that it was a nuclear bomb, and how unfunny that really would be. I don’t know if I accept the examples you gave, like Reindeer Games. The point seems to be in those cases how they are put upon and have to rise above the challenge and succeed, so the pleasure is not from their pain, but from their overcoming it. However, there are plenty examples that do fit the model. Slapstick comedy is rooted in it. Or watching and cheering when the bad guy gets “his just desserts”. Like in the new movie “Pitch Black” (spoiler alert). One of the characters is a prissy “cultured” snob who irritates from the get go. Eventually he is, of course, snacked upon by the monsters. His death is actually satisfying, because his actions of selfishness and lack of thought endanger the others, so it is enjoyable to watch him do himself in by his own stupidity. As far as Independence Day, I think the cheering for the destruction of landmarks and such comes as much from the realism of the effects - it is cool they can make it look so good. Okay, my 2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/12 "2000-03-05T00:59:00Z")
Irishman, that movie was “Dr. Strangelove” with Peter Sellers. A classic dark comedy. Jack ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/13 "2000-03-05T09:48:00Z")
I can think of a movie where I’m sure the audience’s reaction was _schaudenfreude_: **Volcano**. It takes place in L.A., and I saw it in L.A., where everyone was in on the joke of both Dennis Woodruff’s car and one of Angelyne’s billboards being destroyed. For the uninitiated, Angelyne and Dennis Woodruff are two wannabes who, one way or another, have the $$ necessary to, in one case, rent billboards displaying the results of years of plastic surgery, and in the other, to drive around the Valley in a car with **DENNIS WOODRUFF, ACTOR** painted on every surface. I don’t bear either of them any personal ill will, but since it was their icons that were burning, not they themselves, I _howled_. * * * If life were always like this…if they took your guns and left this stuff…we’d live a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/14 "2000-03-06T21:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Doesn’t mean either. Just means that people cheer when they know they’re getting their money’s worth. When I pay nine bucks, I want to be entertained. Does that mean you would cheer _Schnidler’s List?_ ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/15 "2000-03-06T21:57:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Pain is what humor is all about, so how far do you want to retreat? We watch the the pain of others because we identify with it. We seek solutions in other’s misery because of our own failure to deal with it ourselves. We are violent species, also, and I think it better that we do violence by proxy than by direct action. Don’t you? This puts me in mind of a statement by Friedrich Nietzsche: “It is mere petty sentiment to expect much from mankind (even anything at all) if it forgets how to make war.” The quote appeared in H. G. Wells’ _Outlines of History;_ Will Durant also called Nietzsche the “Child of Darwin.” Very likely it is totally impossible for me to make any sense out of movies, on this beasis, any more than I could understand colors if I were born blind. Especially so since I was bullied as a child; that modern movies should appeal to me is as unlikely as that a movie like _Blues Brothers_ or _Breaker, Breaker_ could appeal to anyone who had a family member killed by a hit-and-run driver. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/16 "2000-03-06T23:40:00Z")
I’m with you, **Rilchiam** , a well-done special effects scene is worth applauding. **dougie\_monty** , the difference is when you see “Manhattan” being blown up, you don’t see any character with which you had any empathy being killed, and so you can appreciate the impressive sight of buildings being destroyed. Notice that in a movie where the “hero” (as indicated to us by not-so-subtle hints from the director) dies, there is not much laughter or happiness in the theatre. The word “schadenfreude” applies more to shows like “Married With Children” where you see a family being hateful to each other, and you’re supposed to laugh. Another example would be the lawyer being killed by a Tyrannosaurus Rex in “Jurassic Park.” (a cheap and unnecessary lawyer joke, I thought.) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/17 "2000-03-07T00:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > dougie\_monty, the difference is when you see “Manhattan” being blown up, you don’t see any character with which you had any empathy being killed, and so you can appreciate the impressive sight of buildings being destroyed. This puts me in mind of a “peacenik” I remember from the Sixties; he was a confirmed Maoist who told me “violence against people is immoral; violence against property is moral.” As for the lawyer killed in _Jurassic Park_–I’ll have to take your word on that one, since I never saw that movie, by choice; I’d rather bite into a live grub than watch a movie made by Spielberg. The incident with the lawyer and the tyrannosaurus most likely doesn’t reflect Spielberg’s own attitude about the lawyers he has hired to protect his wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2000, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/18 "2000-03-07T00:52:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried: > the difference is when you see “Manhattan” being blown up, you don’t see any character with which you had any empathy being killed P.S. this in no way, shape or form was intended to refer to our beloved SDMB moderator, **manhattan**. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/19 "2000-04-04T22:23:00Z")
At the absolute best, the other posters’ point here suggests that movies are the pearls cast before me… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schadenfreude-as-a-story-line-element/15548/20 "2000-04-04T22:52:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Rilchiam: > **It’s possible that the audience was not cheering the destruction of Manhattan** ## I have personally never witnessed the destruction of manhattan, but I _have_ seen him get pretty trashed. Uke