# Schiavo autopsy released **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390 "2005-06-15T15:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/61 "2005-06-15T18:32:27Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > There are pathways in the brain that support the unconscious tracking and detection of objects (e.g., superior colliculus pathway). ‘Ocular center’ is vague enough as to be meaningless - visual behaviours can still exist even after complete removal of the primary visual cortex. You may want to take that up with the pathologist then. > [@](#): > > He also said she was blind, because the “vision centers of her brain were dead,” and that her brain was about half of its expected size when she died 13 days following the feeding tube’s removal. From [Yahoo](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050615/ap_on_re_us/schiavo_autopsy_15;_ylt=AtxV8hYgMqKCLjYFm9jaSXbdyl4A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl) this time ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/62 "2005-06-15T18:40:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > By starting a family, do you mean going ahead and having children, or just finding a new girlfriend? > > Because if it’s the former, I sort of agree. If only because I don’t think it would have been fair to place children in the middle of such a mess-I think they should have waited. the shit storm was totally the fault of the RR and her parents. and the level of delusional behavior was astronomic. These folks put him through hell for years and years. and they nearly succeeded in prolonging it even more. Except for the courage of a few judges willing to stand the shitstorm this could still be going on with no end in sight. Should Michael Shiavo have to wait til he’s in his 50’s to have kids because of their lunacy? there was no way to predict how long this situation was going to drag out. I don’t fault him at all for having the children he’d wanted so much while he was young enough to be a part of their lives. and he did one **hell** of a good job keeping his new family away from the spotlight. He certainly could have taken a page or two from the parents play list and paraded them all in front of the cameras. I can’t think of a single soul on the other side who acted with such compassion and maturity. He’s gone on to quietly live his life, bless him and his family. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/63 "2005-06-15T18:43:28Z")
Some neurologist tearing that moron Scarborough from MSNBC a new one! Best voice of reason video since Stewart on Crossfire! [http://mediamatters.org/items/200503290005](http://mediamatters.org/items/200503290005) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/64 "2005-06-15T18:45:16Z")
Oh, I hear you. And I understand that. I just thought it might have been better waiting until their future was more certain. But all in all, I don’t really condemn the man for what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/65 "2005-06-15T18:45:39Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Just like this liar who continues to drag Michael through the mud, LifeNews, which is really a heavily biased news source for others who bear false witness in the name of ‘God’ headlined their story on this information: _Terri Schaivo Autopsy Results Inconclusive_. > > They give all the same information about Terri’s brain, the massive atrophy, and the fact that Michael was cleared of all abuse allegations. > > STILL, these dishonest fuckers have the BALLS to title their story with a headline that’s a manipulative lie. That’s nothing. Read [this](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/15/140643.shtml) from Newsmax, under the headline **“Facts Show Shiavo Was Not Blind”**. Huh? Am I missing something, or do the people who get news from that site only read the headlines? Oh, wait, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/66 "2005-06-15T18:48:19Z")
My sister, of all people, actually convinced me that I was wrong on this topic. I had held that Schiavo was executed without having commited a crime. But my sister, a Christian fundamentalist incidentally, told me about her and her husband’s experiences with her father-in-law. She told me about how every random eye movement would be perceived by his wife as some sign that he was trying to communicate. But, she said, she knew full well that she was looking at a dead man with open eyes. For half an hour, she described to me the heartache that she and her husband endured watching the scenario play out, as the poor man dwindled down to some unrecognizable state of inhumanity. Death was the first blessing the man had had in more than a year. I think Congress was surprised by the reactions of people to its interference. I think a lot of it came from people like my sister. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/67 "2005-06-15T18:49:44Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > But if he believed his wife was truly dead, it was wrong for him to be married to her while starting another family. There’s “moving on with your life” and then there’s starting a whole new family on the side. Well first off you are aware that the Schindlers encouraged him to date new people right? Secondly, he would have given up many legal rights if he had divorced her which would have made it more difficult for him to carry out her wishes. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/68 "2005-06-15T18:56:50Z")
Fucking Newsmax morons. [http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/15/140643.shtml](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/15/140643.shtml) (same link as above) > [@](#): > > Facts Show Schiavo Was Not Blind > > Although millions of Americans watched Terri Schiavo follow people and objects with her eyes as they moved about her hospital room, the doctor who conducted the autopsy reported that she was blind. So they culled through hours of video and got about 10 seconds where her eye movements coincidently overlapped with the path of a balloon they waved in her face, and that’s proof she could see? You could do the same thing with Stevie Wonder. These people are fucking insane! ---
**Author:** ![Chata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Chata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chata)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/69 "2005-06-15T18:58:11Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Are you simple? From what I can tell and have seen, the reason he didn’t divorce her was because he wanted to make sure that her wishes were carried out. What he did, he did out of love. I hope if something tragically happens to me that my husband would do everything to make sure my wishes were met too. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/70 "2005-06-15T18:58:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I think Congress was surprised by the reactions of people to its interference. I think a lot of it came from people like my sister. Sadly the reaction won’t make a spit of difference to those fools in congress. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/71 "2005-06-15T19:02:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I think Congress was surprised by the reactions of people to its interference. I think a lot of it came from people like my sister. I think you are correct. My mother’s family, who’s about as Christian and pro-life as you can get, were all appalled that they interfered with the family’s decision and wouldn’t let Terri die. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/72 "2005-06-15T19:14:26Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > It was a very interesting conference, and the Quincys did an excellent job of it. [aside] A local station brought that back on Saturday nights. Comparing it with _CSI_ it’s amazing how little technology Quincy and Sam had available to them. [/aside] ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/73 "2005-06-15T19:27:19Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Sorry if I said anything untrue? > > You lied. > > And now you recant in a half assed way. > > Yeah, you’re a good Christian. Hateful, much? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/74 "2005-06-15T19:34:20Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > You may want to take that up with the pathologist then. What, the fact that there are pathways in the brain that allow the unconscious ‘perception’ of stimuli? Or that ‘ocular centers’ is a vague term? I imagine that the pathologist was just attempting to speak in laymanesque terms, given that ‘ocular center’ is very odd terminology. Ocular means ‘of the eye’, not of the brain, and the primary visual region of the brain would usually be called ‘primary visual cortex’, ‘striate cortex’, ‘V1’ or ‘Area 17’. > [@](#): > > From [Yahoo](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050615/ap_on_re_us/schiavo_autopsy_15;_ylt=AtxV8hYgMqKCLjYFm9jaSXbdyl4A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl) this time Oh, look - it’s the same info as in the other link. That’s nice. Still doesn’t alter the fact that inferring behaviour from a brain autopsy is fraught with difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/75 "2005-06-15T19:40:37Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > [aside] > > A local station brought that back on Saturday nights. Comparing it with _CSI_ it’s amazing how little technology Quincy and Sam had available to them. > > [/aside] Wouldn’t it be cool if they gave Robert Ito a spinoff. What with the popularity of “House” and “CSI” … What? _looks around_ Oh, sorry. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/76 "2005-06-15T19:42:48Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Sadly the reaction won’t make a spit of difference to those fools in congress. But maybe it will. They’re poll-driven fools, after all. They probably got a lot of negative feedback they weren’t expecting, from directions they never dreamed would turn on them, when they did their save Terri posturing. Okay, so I’m a cockeyed optimist. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/77 "2005-06-15T19:45:30Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > Oh, look - it’s the same info as in the other link. That’s nice. Still doesn’t alter the fact that inferring behaviour from a brain autopsy is fraught with difficulties. Why don’t you fill me in on your point, so I can decide if it’s worth arguing. I can’t figure out if you’re saying that she could see just fine, or what. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/78 "2005-06-15T19:49:00Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Hateful, much? :rolleyes: Yes, she and others have been very hateful to Michael Schaivo. Unlike you and she, _you devout and good Christians_, I’m not a hypocrite that hides behind religion to cast stones at people. I also don’t have the arrogance of faith that allows me to make decisions for _everyone_ that should be left to the **individual** and those that are responsible for them. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/79 "2005-06-15T19:52:39Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Why don’t you fill me in on your point, so I can decide if it’s worth arguing. I can’t figure out if you’re saying that she could see just fine, or what. I think he’s saying that the ME seriously “dumbed-down” the results to the cretinous masses would understand the results, and in effect serious professionals don’t have enough information to go on to actually make a knowledgeable guesstimate of what exactly was wrong with her brain. Instead he used terms like “ocular center” which mean exactly jack and shit to a pathologist. He also backed up the assertion that she could be blind and vegetative and still have eye movement making her appear to not be blind. In short-He’s on your side, dude!(at least he appears to be, to me) Sam ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/80 "2005-06-15T19:52:42Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > But maybe it will. They’re poll-driven fools, after all. They probably got a lot of negative feedback they weren’t expecting, from directions they never dreamed would turn on them, when they did their save Terri posturing. > > Okay, so I’m a cockeyed optimist. Maybe you’re on to something. Maybe my frequent impassioned advice to Democrats is reactionary after all. Maybe all that is required is to do nothing, and let the Republicans self-destruct. Mind you, I don’t think the snooty taunting, a la Dean, is helping at all. But maybe it isn’t necessary yet to take to the streets. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390.md?page=5)