# Schiavo autopsy released **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390 "2005-06-15T15:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/101 "2005-06-15T23:41:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > **wring** , no argument on point number one, but an they really be blamed for point number two? None of them personally issued any death threats, did they? I don’t think they can be blamed for the actions of the loonier fringes of their supporters. (And, considering how looney the Schindlers are themselves, those fringes must be really fucking looney.) They engineered that trainwreck. They were everywhere in print, in front of cameras “please please please help us save Terri”, they stood out in front of that hospice to the mingling throngs thanking them for their support, even though those throngs hindered legitimate visitors to that hospice from getting through. They called (repeatedly) on Jeb Bush to “Do something” even after it was clear there was nothing he could do legally (though there was some speculation at the time that he was going to order the state police to go in and seize Terri to take her someplace else to have the feeding tube inserted). they stood by (if not physically, metaphorically) with that senator blaming the ‘activist judges’. hell yea I lay that at their door. They set up the field. They pointed the fingers. they continued to hype up the rhetoric. even worse, in my book was the daily harangs about how Terri was suffering after the feeding tube was disconnected, that her death was horrific. when absolutely every day some poor family is faced with that terrible decision. Now these other families can be assured that some fucker in their own private hell will remember the Schindlers and their neverending diatribes and attempt to convince these other folks to prolong the suffering of their loved ones. Vile scum. (I need to stop holding back like this, and tell you how I really feel) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/102 "2005-06-15T23:43:14Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Yes, she and others have been very hateful to Michael Schaivo. > > Unlike you and she, _you devout and good Christians_, I’m not a hypocrite that hides behind religion to cast stones at people. > > I also don’t have the arrogance of faith that allows me to make decisions for _everyone_ that should be left to the **individual** and those that are responsible for them. There are just as many Christians who are on the opposite side of the argument - biblical authorities, priests, rabbis, biblical scholars. The cites have been provided many many times by me personally. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/103 "2005-06-15T23:45:54Z")
> [@SteveG1 (bolding mine)](#): > > There are just as **many Christians** who are on the opposite side of the argument - biblical authorities, priests, **rabbis,** biblical scholars. One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/104 "2005-06-15T23:49:26Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Oh fucking hell. You must be kidding me. Loons. > > They’ll probably take it to a priest and see if he thinks’ it’s an accurate ME’s report…kinda like asking Dr. Frist for his medical opinion. > > Sam If they take it to a priest, there is a good likelihiid that they will not get the answer they wanted. They are Catholics. Catholic policy is that there is a time for letting go. That has been the policy for centuries. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/105 "2005-06-15T23:50:15Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > **wring** , you have a cite that they are going to continue to hound him, or is that just what you _think_ they will do? Now that Terri is dead they have no reason to do so. golly gee. have they posted on their website “we pledge to continue to hound Michael to the end of time”? no, I don’t suspect that they did. However, I **did** post their rep’s comments **today** (as in **after she’s dead** ) where they’re continuing to accuse him of causing Terri’s condition in the first place (already posted, along with the point of “gee, this statement contradicts their sworn testimony in the original lawsuit where they regaled w/tales of what a wonderful loving son in law he was”). I see no evidence that this will be their last salvo, especially since they’re still claiming that the autopsy is wrong. you got anything suggesting that this is the last time they’ll blame Michael? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/106 "2005-06-15T23:52:18Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same… Shrug, it doesn’t matter. My point remains the same. Pick a religon, any religon, there will be someone who opposed the whole spectacle. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/107 "2005-06-15T23:56:56Z")
> [@wring](#): > > you got anything suggesting that this is the last time they’ll blame Michael? Only that there’s no point to it anymore, since the accusations were an attempt to prevent them from removing the tube. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/108 "2005-06-15T23:57:36Z")
[Here is the full autopsy report (PDF).](http://www.sptimes.com/2005/06/15/schiavoreport.pdf) I’m not any kind of a doctor, but I’m sure our resident MDs (Medical Dopers) will be along to provide more in depth analysis. Here’s a bit from the summary section on page 35: > [@](#): > > What diagnoses can be made in regards to the brain of Mrs. Schiavo? (See attached neuropathology report) > > Mrs. Schiavo’s brain showed marked global anoxic-ischemic encephalopathy resulting in massive cerebral atrophy. Her brain weight was approximately half of the expected weight. Of particular importance was the hypoxic damage and neuronal loss in her occipital lobes, which indicates cortical blindness. Her remaining brain regions also show severe hypoxic injury and neuronal atrophy/loss. No areas of recent or remote traumatic injury were found. In other words, large portions of her brain withered and died due to lack of oxygen, most notably the portion that would have allowed her to see. There was no evidence that she was physically abused. I see Doc J beat me to the report, but I’ve already typed out all this stuff so here ya go. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/109 "2005-06-15T23:58:32Z")
FWIW on the blindness issue: According to _Phantoms in the Brain: Probing the Mysteries of the Human Mind_ by V.S. Ramachandran, the optic nerves split and feed not only the visual cortex (where we “see” things) but also the motor area. According to Ramachandran a person who is blind because of a defect in the visual cortex can nevertheless reach out and grasp an object held in his visual field (in other words, the eyes still work and eye-hand coordination is still possible). Now I have no idea what the situation was in Schiavo’s case, but it is at least possible that her eyes could track motion even if she couldn’t “see” a thing. We need more information to answer that question. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/110 "2005-06-16T00:04:12Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Just to play devil’s advocate here, you have to be careful about jumping to conclusions based on brain size alone. Here, Here! Just look at Nancy Grace! She has her own damn TV Show! ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/111 "2005-06-16T00:08:12Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Only that there’s no point to it anymore, since the accusations were an attempt to prevent them from removing the tube. ya know, I’m not one to accuse others (generally) of selective reading, reading comprehension and all, but didja _happen to notice_ where I’ve **twice** pointed out that their accusations are continuing **today**? as in: 1. after the feeding tube was removed. 2. after all the legal maneuvering 3. after the shell of Terri finally was allowed to pass on 4. after their funerals 5. after the autopsy report was in. her death did not stop them from continuing their verbal assault on Michael Shiavo. I see absolutely nothing to suggest that this most recent (today, remember) accusation will be their last. Their brains don’t apparently have a section on “there’s no point to it anymore”. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/112 "2005-06-16T00:11:41Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Only that there’s no point to it anymore, since the accusations were an attempt to prevent them from removing the tube. No point is needed in the continuance of a feud. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/113 "2005-06-16T00:17:49Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > –Yes, you can live with half a brain. I’m sure the right-wing nutbars will spend the next few days finding every case report of someone who has lost 50% of their brain tissue yet lives a life to one degree or another. Must…avoid…easy…jokes… ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/114 "2005-06-16T00:18:27Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > **wring** , you have a cite that they are going to continue to hound him, or is that just what you _think_ they will do? Now that Terri is dead they have no reason to do so. From the link provided by **LouisB** in post #95 above yours: > [@](#): > > **Schindlers unconvinced** > > Regardless of the autopsy findings, the Schindlers continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, their lawyer, David Gibbs III, said after Thogmartin’s report was issued. He said they plan to discuss the autopsy with other medical experts and **may take some unspecified legal action**. > > “We are, **at this point** , examining every option and no decisions have been made,” Gibbs said. Against whom would they be taking legal action, may I ask, if not Michael? What “options” are there left to examine? What possible “decisions” could be made if there’s “no reason to do so”? “At this point,” as in right now, today, currently, on-going. What more evidence do you need that they fully intend to continue to hound Michael Schiavo? It’s right there in black and white as a direct quote from their legal representative. Evil pricks. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/115 "2005-06-16T00:28:03Z")
maybe they will bring suit against the judge who was kicked out of his church for following the law on this case? Anything is possible with these folks. Does anyone else really, really want to smack them upside the head? I am not a violent person, but this whole debacle is testing me. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/116 "2005-06-16T00:33:37Z")
> [@wring](#): > > ya know, I’m not one to accuse others (generally) of selective reading, reading comprehension and all, but didja _happen to notice_ where I’ve **twice** pointed out that their accusations are continuing **today**? Well, I thought you would obviously realize that of course they are going to make a statement _today_, because of the autopsy report coming out and having the ear of the press. Don’t you think the press is going to go away soon, if they haven’t already? Very soon these folks are going to be stewing in their own juices with no press coverage anymore to relay their grief-warped ideas. on preview: **Shayna** , you have a good point there. I’d guess they’d more likely pursue legal action against the state than Michael, but who knows. Anyway, legal action against the state is also “harm” IMHO, so I concede that there is indeed harm done by them avoiding the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/117 "2005-06-16T00:33:41Z")
The first time I heard about this case was also the first time I heard Sean Hannity; I was skipping around the radio dial, and came upon this agitated-sounding guy talking about a videotape, and how “she’s **obviously** aware and conscious and responding to her family”. After that I found out the facts of the case, learned who Sean Hannity was, and have since decided that he’s not only a liar, but, honestly, kind of stupid. (Not as in “holding stupid opinions”, but as in “of limited cognitive ability”.) Because I’m naive, it took me a while to understand why some Republicans in Congress were talking about this case. I was puzzled at first; the case isn’t unusual, in fact it happens all the time, all over the country. Then I realized that it wasn’t about Ms. Schiavo; the GOP in the House and Senate didn’t give a shit about her (even though they kept calling her “Terri”, as if they were close friends of the family). It was about the judges; the case was to be an opening for an all-out assault on the third branch of our government – the only branch that can check the abuses currently being practiced by the Executive and Legislative branches. Of course, the attack was based on a transparent lie – specifically, that the judges who had been involved in the Schiavo case were “activist judges”. That’s the opposite of the truth, yet they kept repeating it as if it made sense. Bill Frist should lose his license to practice. (Al Franken joked that the Senate had passed a bill to have tv cameras placed in all ICU wards and hospices, so that Bill Frist could check them out on a monitor and give a quick thumbs-up or thumbs-down on the patients.) If I had been in Michael Schiavo’s shoes, I really think I might have committed homicide. Not against Terri Schiavo (she effectively died in 1990), but against the fucking heartless, soulless ghouls eager to use her for dirty politics. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/118 "2005-06-16T00:36:20Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > OK, sorry if I said anything untrue about the husband. \*\*I didn’t follow the case very closely, \*\* because I found it very painful for reasons I can’t go into to. But if he believed his wife was truly dead, it was wrong for him to be married to her while starting another family. There’s “moving on with your life” and then there’s starting a whole new family on the side. Bolding and underlining above mine. You didn’t follow the case closely but you were still able to be ugly to the husband. Then you attempted to excuse yourself with mention of his new family(presumably the children) who were in no way involved. Your “apology”, as has been stated before by others, is not good enough. It sounds to me as if you were trying to get the rest of us off your back. It didn’t work, did it? And you haven’t yet had the guts to come back and really apologize, something along the lines of “I was truly hateful to MS for not good reason I can state. I am very sorry, and will try not to do it again to anyone else.” Something like that would take guts, which I don’t believe you have, since I haven’t seen you in this thread since the above quote. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/119 "2005-06-16T00:39:16Z")
> [@](#): > > If I had been in Michael Schiavo’s shoes, I really think I might have committed homicide. Not against Terri Schiavo (she effectively died in 1990), but against the fucking heartless, soulless ghouls eager to use her for dirty politics. It would have involved killing an awful lot of people. I’m sure there probably would have been a downside. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390/120 "2005-06-16T00:47:25Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > OK, sorry if I said anything untrue about the husband. I didn’t follow the case very closely, because I found it very painful for reasons I can’t go into to. I felt this way as well before I was following the case very closely; my feeling was that Michael Schiavo might have been a jerk and might have had more sinister motives, but it was still his decision to make. My experience has been that people who similarly got the information from a TV news story here and there often had a more negative view of Michael. At this point, there is very little about this case that I haven’t read, and my view is completely different. I believe that Michael Schiavo did what he did out of love for his wife and a desire to see her wishes respected, and that any missteps he took over the years were made out of frustration rather than malice or self-interest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schiavo-autopsy-released/308390.md?page=7)