# School bus laws when driving... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 29, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241 "2012-10-29T18:13:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/1 "2012-10-29T18:13:54Z")
I’ve been researching this for my state, but it doesn’t seem to cover this particular circumstance specifically. If a school bus is stopped with its flashers on, obviously you have to stop. Does that generally change at all if the bus is NOT in the road proper, but in a “jog” in the side of the road made specifically for public and school buses? All the cites I’ve found talk and have pictures as if the bus is “in the road” (which it’s not). I was unsure what to do under this circumstance, and I probably did the wrong thing, but I want to be sure. This was early morning, if it makes any difference whatsoever. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/2 "2012-10-29T18:20:41Z")
The straightest dope is likely to be had by calling the non-emergency number for your local police station. Not knowing otherwise, if I encountered the scenario you describe, I would stop. This is especially important in the afternoon, because when the bus drops off kids, the bus usually keeps that stop sign stuck out while they (the kids) cross the road. If you’re zooming by when they run out into the street, a collision is likely. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/3 "2012-10-29T18:22:03Z")
Every jurisdiction I’ve been in said yes if you were approaching from the rear. Approaching from the front may be different. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/4 "2012-10-29T18:23:17Z")
I would stop, there’s still students loading/unloading. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/5 "2012-10-29T18:23:44Z")
I believe if it is a small turn-off for buses, you still have to stop for school buses. I base my answer on the fact that both directions of traffic have to stop for school buses even if the kids are getting on or off on the same side of the road that the bus is stopped. The extra precautions are in place because young school bus riders aren’t always predictable and you want traffic all around them stopped in case one of them runs in a random direction into traffic. Of course, if the bus turnoff were huge and set well off the normal road, I don’t think the rule would apply. ---
**Author:** ![Deegeea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Deegeea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deegeea)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/6 "2012-10-29T18:29:24Z")
In my state it’s by number of lanes. In a road with four lanes (if divided or having a turn lane in the middle), only same direction traffic must stop. Fewer than four lanes, or exactly four with no divider or middle turn lane, and both directions must stop. I would say the turn off counts as an additional lane - more than one lane if it’s more than one lane deep, but your description sounds like a single extra lane. Diagrams here: [http://www.ncbussafety.org/SchoolBusSafety/SBSWlaw.html](http://www.ncbussafety.org/SchoolBusSafety/SBSWlaw.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/7 "2012-10-29T18:39:27Z")
> [@Deegeea](#): > > In my state it’s by number of lanes. In a road with four lanes (if divided or having a turn lane in the middle), only same direction traffic must stop. Fewer than four lanes, or exactly four with no divider or middle turn lane, and both directions must stop. I would say the turn off counts as an additional lane - more than one lane if it’s more than one lane deep, but your description sounds like a single extra lane. > > Diagrams here: > [North Carolina School Bus Stop Law](http://www.ncbussafety.org/SchoolBusSafety/SBSWlaw.html) Your diagram indicates that in a road with four lanes and a turn lane in the middle **ALL** traffic must stop, not just the same direction traffic. If it is divided by a median the opposite direction traffic can continue. I checked because I also live in North Carolina and I know how strict they are on that. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/8 "2012-10-29T18:42:30Z")
If the turn-off doesn’t have a curb between where the bus is and the road proper, I’d consider it part of the road, and if the bus had its “stop” sign visible I’d stop as normal. If it does have a curb, I wouldn’t consider that part of the same road, so I’d just slow down and be a little more alert. But in this situation, I imagine the bus driver wouldn’t use the “stop” sign. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/9 "2012-10-29T18:48:36Z")
Never mind my answer up above, I was wrong. That’s what happens when a rube from the sticks talks about big city traffic. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/10 "2012-10-29T18:54:12Z")
The lights were flashing, but there was no stop sign. Do most/all buses these days have that? This is a fairly large district, I think, so if they can afford it, I think they’d have it. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/11 "2012-10-29T19:38:22Z")
Here in CT there’[s a difference between yellow flashers (those are like the flashers you might put on in your own car) and red flashers. You must stop only for the latter which is accompanied by a mechanical stop sign the emerges from the side of the bus. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/12 "2012-10-29T20:19:33Z")
Well hopefully you didn’t do what this lady did: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89fApjIW0mA) Driver repeatedly would not stop for the bus, so they set up a sting operation to catch her. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/13 "2012-10-29T20:26:45Z")
So which state are you in? ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/14 "2012-10-29T20:28:10Z")
It’s not a matter of what lane the bus is in, it’s a matter of whether there are going to be little kids running back and forth across the road. Since the answer is always, “Yes,” you must stop regardless of what lane/shoulder/gutter/lawn the bus is parked in. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/15 "2012-10-29T20:54:25Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Here in CT there’[s a difference between yellow flashers (those are like the flashers you might put on in your own car) and red flashers. You must stop only for the latter which is accompanied by a mechanical stop sign the emerges from the side of the bus. I think that school bus lighting convention is pretty universal, and stems from the basic idea that flashing yellow lights mean “proceed with caution” and flashing red lights mean “you are legally required to come to a complete stop.” ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/16 "2012-10-29T21:35:58Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The lights were flashing, but there was no stop sign. Do most/all buses these days have that? This is a fairly large district, I think, so if they can afford it, I think they’d have it. The yellow flashers, or the red ones? Pretty important difference. I’d also like to hear whether the pull-out had a curb between it and the main road or not. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/17 "2012-10-30T03:07:23Z")
I agree with OP that this is confusing! Even worse, my wife yelled at me for not stopping for a school bus sitting in a library parking lot as I turned away from the bus into a parallel row of cars. I felt it was in my right as I was not immediately behind the bus. I can’t recall if kids were unloading, but it had to be a high school bus parked (or standing) at a curb. The situation was ambiguous, and I feel his lights should not have even been on. Plus, I felt this did not stop me from turning just shy of being directly behind the bus. Regardless, does the law apply in a parking lot vs. a public street? ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/18 "2012-10-30T03:29:40Z")
I was taught that in Oregon, you must always stop for a bus with flashing red lights no matter the circumstances, unless you are on a highway with a PHYSICAL dividing median (not just painted lines), and are in the oncoming lane. I would say you probably broke the law if you blew through it, even though the bus was not in your lane. ---
**Author:** ![ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/19 "2012-10-30T03:46:01Z")
> [@Jinx](#): > > I agree with OP that this is confusing! Even worse, my wife yelled at me for not stopping for a school bus sitting in a library parking lot as I turned away from the bus into a parallel row of cars. I felt it was in my right as I was not immediately behind the bus. I can’t recall if kids were unloading, but it had to be a high school bus parked (or standing) at a curb. > > The situation was ambiguous, and I feel his lights should not have even been on. Plus, I felt this did not stop me from turning just shy of being directly behind the bus. Regardless, does the law apply in a parking lot vs. a public street? Since I don’t know where you are, I’ll just say that in New York state, it doesn’t seem to matter if it is public or private property, although it’s unclear if a totally private parking lot would count. A library, probably. > [@](#): > > S 1174. Overtaking and passing school bus. \*\*(a) The driver of a vehicle upon a public highway, street or private road upon meeting or overtaking from either direction any school bus \*\* marked and equipped as provided in subdivision twenty of section three hundred seventy-five of this chapter which has stopped on the public highway, street or private road for the purpose of receiving or discharging any passengers, or which has stopped because a school bus in front of it has stopped to receive or discharge any passengers, shall stop the vehicle before reaching such school bus when there is in operation on said school bus a red visual signal as specified in subdivision twenty of section three hundred seventy-five of this chapter and said driver shall not proceed until such school bus resumes motion, or until signaled by the driver or a police officer to proceed. > > … > > For the purposes of this section, and in addition to the provisions of section one hundred thirty-four of this chapter, **the term “public highway” shall mean any area used for the parking of motor vehicles or used as a driveway located on the grounds of a school or of a board of cooperative educational services facility or any area used as a means of access to and egress from such school or facility.** Towards the OP, this law doesn’t really spell out an answer to your question. It simply describes “meeting or overtaking” and doesn’t make any exceptions for divided highways, curbs, etc. I would imagine you’d have a hard time quibbling over the meaning of “overtaking” because it’s off to the side slightly. Again - this is NY law… ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241/20 "2012-10-30T06:05:56Z")
> [@Blakeyrat](#): > > If the turn-off doesn’t have a curb between where the bus is and the road proper, I’d consider it part of the road, and if the bus had its “stop” sign visible I’d stop as normal. > > If it does have a curb, I wouldn’t consider that part of the same road, so I’d just slow down and be a little more alert. But in this situation, I imagine the bus driver wouldn’t use the “stop” sign. > [@OldGuy](#): > > Here in CT there’[s a difference between yellow flashers (those are like the flashers you might put on in your own car) and red flashers. You must stop only for the latter which is accompanied by a mechanical stop sign the emerges from the side of the bus. Same in Canada in most provinces AFAIK the rules re pretty much the same across North America - Yellow flashing is just “Caution”. Red flashing, sign sticking out says “Stop” - you stop. Unless the “bus bay” in question is effectively a separate road, (curb and decent median, off in another direction, whatever) it is part of the road you are on. You stop or get a big ticket. If they stopped before an intersection pulled into the right turn lane, would you think the rule does not apply either? Not much different than a bus bay. Also, almost every jurisdiction, with red flashing lights and the flap-out stop sign, traffic following the bus must stop; unless there is a median with curbs between the directions, oncomng traffic must also stop. The earlier posters have it right. The logic is, kids get excited, don’t think, run out from the front or back of bus without looking. Therefore, simpler if all traffic stops. It used to be the busses also had a flop-out gate on the front to stop kids from running in ront of the bus engine in the driver’s blind spot. Don’t recall if they still do. Rural bus drivers have mentioned its amazing how many drivers (deliberately) ignore the obvious stop warnings even on rural roads with 60mph limits where the situation is a helluva lot more dangerous… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-bus-laws-when-driving/639241.md?page=2)