# School cancels Honors Ceremony. Have we taken this thing too far? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 22, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613 "2013-03-22T04:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/21 "2013-03-22T13:31:54Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Usually, doing a great job just means you get to keep your job and if you want a special dinner, you get your family and friends together and do it yourself. Welcome to the real world, kids. Doing an _adequate_ job means you get to keep your job. Doing a great job often leads to raises, promotions, and opportunities for better jobs. Kids should learn that there are rewards for excelling. Not every time, but more often than for just being adequate. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/22 "2013-03-22T13:34:32Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Doing an _adequate_ job means you get to keep your job. Doing a great job often leads to raises, promotions, and opportunities for better jobs. But very rarely parties in your honor. > [@](#): > > Kids should learn that there are rewards for excelling. Not every time, but more often than for just being adequate. There IS a reward. You get better grades, scholarships, chances at advanced classes, etc. Opportunities for better things. The same results you’re lauding for doing a great job at work. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/23 "2013-03-22T13:35:50Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > [Link here.](http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/education/item/14856-school-cancels-honors-night-to-avoid-hurt-feelings) > > No score kept in youth league baseball and soccer games. There isn’t a soccer league on the planet where score isn’t kept. The league may not officially record it, but the KIDS sure do. I don’t think people really understand why, at the lowest age levels, soccer leagues don’t officially keep score. It’s not to reduce competition; it’s to reduce the level of vitriol and spit-flying hatred from the parents. I’m coaching 7-year-olds and this winter season already had one parent demand I play the better kids all the time and bench the less talented kids (of course, he felt his kid was in the former group) so we could “win” more often. If I had to deal with that all the time it’d be hell on earth. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/24 "2013-03-22T13:39:02Z")
This is why I make sure to personally keep score for my 3 kids. Each night, before bed, I line them up, and announce the Winner, Loser, and Participant. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/25 "2013-03-22T14:12:03Z")
[Loser/Last Place awards.](http://www.crownawards.com/StoreFront/4TL.For_The_Loser_Trophies_And_Awards.cat) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/26 "2013-03-22T14:12:23Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > In a word yes. > > I’m too lazy to read the article right now but I’ve heard this story before. I don’t know if this practice is uncommon or fairly standard. Whatever it is, it needs to stop. > > Hell, I’m all for teaching kids classism as well. Like maybe have VIP dinning during lunches for kids making Bs or above. I’m not sure how you would work that out. Maybe rope off a certain section in the cafeteria for VIPs only and instead of waiting in line like the rest of the kids, have their food brought out to them. And Fridays they could have something special like take out from a local chain restaurant. > > But I know I’m on the fringe in that regard. I saw somewhere an experiment where they tried just nakedly paying for grades. Like, $50 for straight A’s. And it worked surprisingly well. Just offends our sense of decency (“when I was a kid I just expected to do well!”) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/27 "2013-03-22T16:21:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t think people really understand why, at the lowest age levels, soccer leagues don’t officially keep score. It’s not to reduce competition; it’s to reduce the level of vitriol and spit-flying hatred from the parents. I’m coaching 7-year-olds and this winter season already had one parent demand I play the better kids all the time and bench the less talented kids (of course, he felt his kid was in the former group) so we could “win” more often. If I had to deal with that all the time it’d be hell on earth. …So that the less talented kids not only never get better, they don’t want to, because what’s the point when they never get to play. Man, people sure are jerks. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/28 "2013-03-22T16:33:34Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Since you’re citing a John Birch Society publication, can I ask why the good old conservative doctrine of “local control” doesn’t apply here? > > Considering that you live in Kansas, and not in the Massachusetts school district where this is taking place, why do you think you should have a say? Has the principal—or any resident of the district—asked you to weigh in on the matter? > > How do you square your belief in “limited government” with your apparent belief that school districts to which you have no connection—you don’t live in the district’s catchment, you pay no taxes to it, they haven’t asked for your consultation—still need to mind your opinion? So wait, you can’t have an opinion on what someone is doing who doesn’t live in the same legal district as you do, or else you’re a hypocrite for believing in local controls? He didn’t even propose that the government should step in and stop them or something, just that it was a bad idea. So if you hear about some school district in Louisiana outlawing the teaching of evolution or something, well, that’s no concern of yours, you’re not from that district, right? Can’t have an opinion on it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/29 "2013-03-22T16:38:16Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I saw somewhere an experiment where they tried just nakedly paying for grades. Like, $50 for straight A’s. And it worked surprisingly well. Just offends our sense of decency (“when I was a kid I just expected to do well!”) I always find this to be an interesting way to see if people are interested in whatever seems like a good idea to them, and results-based evaluation. It may turn out that paying a kid $50 for good grades may do more to help them be academically successful than spending $200 per kid on facilities/teachers/whatever. But there are a whole lot of people who would steadfastly oppose such an initiative because something about it doesn’t seem right in their gut. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/30 "2013-03-22T16:46:25Z")
At least they still play tug-of-war at my nephew’s school. One side pulls and the other pushes. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/31 "2013-03-22T17:25:58Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > When I feel failure, I know I need to get better or get out. Shouldn’t children learn this at a young age? No. The first lesson a child should learn is not “be first or get out.” Certainly in sports young kids have to learn how to actually play the game first. How do you hit the ball, how do you throw and catch the ball, how do you kick or run or whatever. If we filter kids by their sports ability at age 4 or 5 or whatever we eliminate a lot of kids who might be good one day, or who might just play a sport for fun. Every time I hear about someone who thinks non-competitive sports are stupid, I have to wonder, do you play golf? Sure, it’s competitive at the professional level but millions of adults play for fun and they ain’t ever going to make it to the PGA. Should we close done all those golf courses? Because those adults are deluding themselves if they think life is going to be like a golf match. While we’re at it, lets get rid of weight classes in boxing and wrestling. What kid of lesson is that teaching our little folks? As for school honors, get rid of all of them. If a student can’t figure out any reason to study hard other than to get an award, they shouldn’t get an award for being smart. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/32 "2013-03-22T17:35:22Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I saw somewhere an experiment where they tried just nakedly paying for grades. Like, $50 for straight A’s. And it worked surprisingly well. Just offends our sense of decency (“when I was a kid I just expected to do well!”) _Freakonomics_, the movie, if I remember correctly. There was also a drawing for a one large prize for all who had “good” grades and that seemed to be a big motivator. I don’t think the conclusion was that it worked well. It worked sometimes for some students. I think the conclusion was it’s worth a try, not that this method always works. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/33 "2013-03-22T17:36:34Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > No. The first lesson a child should learn is not “be first or get out.” Certainly in sports young kids have to learn how to actually play the game first. How do you hit the ball, how do you throw and catch the ball, how do you kick or run or whatever. If we filter kids by their sports ability at age 4 or 5 or whatever we eliminate a lot of kids who might be good one day, or who might just play a sport for fun. > > Every time I hear about someone who thinks non-competitive sports are stupid, I have to wonder, do you play golf? Sure, it’s competitive at the professional level but millions of adults play for fun and they ain’t ever going to make it to the PGA. Should we close done all those golf courses? Because those adults are deluding themselves if they think life is going to be like a golf match. While we’re at it, lets get rid of weight classes in boxing and wrestling. What kid of lesson is that teaching our little folks? > > As for school honors, get rid of all of them. If a student can’t figure out any reason to study hard other than to get an award, they shouldn’t get an award for being smart. With the overemphasis on athletic achievement so prevalent today, I think we could actually use a little more recognition of academic accomplishment in this country. But I agree with your perspectives on youth sports. Not only do we start the filtering process entirely too early, we often filter inefficiently as well. Malcolm Gladwell had but one interesting finding when he examined participants’ birth dates in youth sports around the globe. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/34 "2013-03-22T17:36:36Z")
[QUOTE=SSG Schwartz] Kansas is the place where the Flying Spaghetti Monster meme started as a way to show how intelligent design is ridiculous to teach in schools. Instead, what we get is that now the schools have to teach three ways of creation. [/quote] > [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > What three ways of creation do the schools have to teach? Carbonara, Marinara, and Puttanesca? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/35 "2013-03-22T20:39:57Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > [Link here.](http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/education/item/14856-school-cancels-honors-night-to-avoid-hurt-feelings) > > No score kept in youth league baseball and soccer games. No gold stars given to the brightest students. When do kids learn that life is a competition and sometimes you ain’t the best? > > I really feel we are teaching kids that no matter how little you try, you will be rewarded. When I feel failure, I know I need to get better or get out. Shouldn’t children learn this at a young age? Yes, they should. Life does not give you a medal just for showing up. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/36 "2013-03-22T20:49:18Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > But very rarely parties in your honor. The sales guys at my company get a free trip every year if the overachieve their goals by a certain percentage. There is a big party there for them, as well. I have had a party or two thrown for me at work when I was awesomesauce. (Though, given how awesome I am, that isn’t really a surprise.) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/37 "2013-03-22T21:17:45Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > …So that the less talented kids not only never get better, they don’t want to, because what’s the point when they never get to play. > > Man, people sure are jerks. And it’s not even necessarily ‘less talented’ - often it’s ‘slower developing’. My oldest son loved baseball and basketball, but, frankly, wasn’t much good at either. We lucked into two coaches who kept him on their teams, and by the time he got to high-school, he was good enough to make the teams. If he hadn’t discovered that he was a distance runner, he might have started in baseball as a senior (switched to track), and he ended up as the sixth man on the basketball team. So my bugaboo is the early sorting/exclusion of kids (in all areas, not just sports) based on performance when they are 6 or 10. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/38 "2013-03-22T21:43:35Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Yes, they should. Life does not give you a medal just for showing up. Maybe not, but you can [buy one](http://rainbowengraving.com/perfectattendancemedal.aspx) pretty cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/39 "2013-03-22T22:10:43Z")
FWIW, several US educators are looking to the extremely successful education system in Finland for ways to improve student outcomes. Finnish schools focus on collaboration and equity, and have pretty much eradicated the concept of student competition. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613/40 "2013-03-22T22:27:15Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > The sales guys at my company get a free trip every year if the overachieve their goals by a certain percentage. There is a big party there for them, as well. First off, the company is offering an incentive there because the company gets more money the better the salesmen do. While schools get some benefit from higher performing students (NCLB, etc), they’re much better off trying to raise grades as a whole than worrying about if a handful of students are going well above the curve and specifically rewarding that. Secondly, while I don’t doubt some places throw parties, most don’t. If parents want to make a big deal about, that’s fine. Heck, I don’t even care if the school decides to do it. But there’s absolutely nothing wrong with a school deciding NOT to do it. There should be no expectation that anyone is going to laud and make a big deal about how wonderful you are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-cancels-honors-ceremony-have-we-taken-this-thing-too-far/653613.md?page=3)