# School fires teacher because her jailed ex might cause trouble when he gets out? Right call or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 13, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907 "2013-06-13T15:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/1 "2013-06-13T15:42:15Z")
Per this scenario [Teacher Fired Because Abusive Ex-Husband Posed Threat to Students](http://gawker.com/teacher-fired-because-abusive-ex-husband-posed-threat-t-513096922) A teacher comes to the school administration and tells them she is having issues with an abusive ex. He gets put in jail, but they move ahead to fire her because he will be getting out shortly, and in the past had already come onto school grounds once looking for her. Justifiable move by the school or not? On the surface it seems outrageous, but if I was the parent of one of those kids in that school I might feel differently. > [@](#): > > Earlier this year, Carie Charlesworth and her four children were removed from Holy Trinity School after she gathered up the courage to disclosed her struggles with domestic violence to the school’s principal. After what the second-grade teacher’s called “a very bad weekend with [her ex-husband],” the unidentified man arrived outside the school, prompting a lockdown. > > She was subsequently put on “an indefinite leave,” and then formally terminated three months later. > > Charlesworth’s letter of termination read, in part: > We know from the most recent incident involving you and Mrs. Wright (the principal) while you were still physically at Holy Trinity School, that the temporary restraining order in effect were not a deterrent to him. Although we understand he is current incarcerated, we have no way of knowing how long or short a time he will actually serve and we understand from court files that he may be released as early as next fall. In the interest of the safety of the students, faculty and parents at Holy Trinity School, we simply cannot allow you to return to work there, or, unfortunately, at any other school in the Diocese. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/2 "2013-06-13T16:32:43Z")
I think the school should lose whatever accreditation it has for sending out a formal termination letter with such horrible grammar. Also think they made a bad call in firing the teacher. As noted in the linked article, this is the sort of thing that makes it difficult for victims of domestic violence to come forward. The teacher has broken no laws, and should not lose her job because of the criminal actions of a third party. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/3 "2013-06-13T16:44:52Z")
It appears to be a private school, so I suspect they can fire her for any old reason they want. When I worked at a Catholic school for a few years, they fired a male teacher for posting a picture of himself on his private Facebook without a shirt on. In swim trunks. I mean, I guess props for being fair (because obviously, a woman would be fired for a topless picture, too), but beyond ridiculous. This is why all of my teacher friends got credentials and went through the public school system (well, that and the pay and benefits are usually much better). Say what you will about the teacher unions, but this would have never happened in the public arena. On a human level, I think it is absolutely wrong to fire her in this situation. Frankly, it’s pretty damned unchristian to turn your back on someone so clearly in need. That said, it may be hypocritical, but the school is likely well within their rights to terminate her for any reason they want. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/4 "2013-06-13T16:45:05Z")
While I appreciate the chilling influence on victims of domestic violence, it’s hard to justify putting children in danger to uphold lofty principles. Let’s also ask ourselves if the parents of the students will continue sending their kids when they know a teacher’s ex caused a school lockdown. They don’t know if or when this fool is going to show up again and hurt someone. It’s sort of like Typhoid Mary. It’s not necessarily her fault that people around her are at risk, but we can’t be letting her work in the kitchen anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/5 "2013-06-13T16:54:11Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Let’s also ask ourselves if the parents of the students will continue sending their kids when they know a teacher’s ex caused a school lockdown. The linked article says: > [@](#): > > …said Charlesworth after being informed that several parents were planning to pull their children out of school if she returned. This isn’t narrow-minded parents unwilling to expose their children to some upsetting idea or challenge to their moral formation – this is parents unwilling to expose their children to the threat of physical violence. And not a theoretical threat, either: the guy already showed up at the school and caused enough of a panic that the school went into lockdown. Yes, it’s unfortunate in the extreme that she loses her job through no fault of her own. But, as **Cheesesteak** points out, Typhoid Mary loses her job as a cook through no fault of her own, either. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/6 "2013-06-13T16:58:24Z")
California is an “at-will employment” state, so they can legally fire her for just about any reason (with a few exceptions). Which doesn’t make it OK. This statement: > [@the catholic school that fired her](#): > > In the interest of the safety of the students, faculty and parents at Holy Trinity School, we simply cannot allow you to return to work there, or, unfortunately, at any other school in the Diocese. is the epitome of “blaming the victim.” They’re saying “it’s your fault the school is in danger.” > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s sort of like Typhoid Mary. It’s not necessarily her fault that people around her are at risk, but we can’t be letting her work in the kitchen anymore. If the women had an incurable, untreatable mental illness that rendered her prone to random fits of murderous violence, then yes, it would be like Typhoid Mary. “Sorry, you’re mentally ill and we can’t have you endangering the kids.” But it’s not like that. The party most directly responsible for the hazard is not her, it’s her loser ex-husband. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/7 "2013-06-13T17:04:34Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > California is an “at-will employment” state, so they can legally fire her for just about any reason (with a few exceptions). > > Which doesn’t make it OK. > > This statement: > is the epitome of “blaming the victim.” They’re saying “it’s your fault the school is in danger.” > > If the women had an incurable, untreatable mental illness that rendered her prone to random fits of murderous violence, then yes, it would be like Typhoid Mary. “Sorry, you’re mentally ill and we can’t have you endangering the kids.” > > But it’s not like that. The party most directly responsible for the hazard is not her, it’s her loser ex-husband. This is understood. The point though (for the parents) is if the harassed employee and her ex are going to potentially come as a package wherever she works where do they draw the line? Just because it’s not her fault does not mean there is not a credible threat to having her around. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/8 "2013-06-13T17:06:53Z")
> [@astro](#): > > This is understood. The point though (for the parents) is if the harassed employee and her ex are going to potentially come as a package wherever she works where do they draw the line? How about somewhere between her and her ex? Her ex is not an transmissible, incurable disease. As a society, maybe we could make a _little_ more effort to support victims of domestic violence. Maybe this catholic school could exhibit some of that famous christian charity and help her deal with this by continuing to employ her, maybe even offer some legal assistance to help sort out how to best keep her ex at bay (e.g help with filing/enforcing a restraining order, documenting/eyewitnessing incidents, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/9 "2013-06-13T17:07:31Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > They’re saying “it’s your fault the school is in danger.” You’re reading in something that isn’t there. The school has no control over the ex, but it can remove his motivation for coming to the school. I find it hard to believe they couldn’t have moved her to another school, though. It totally sucks for her, but the school’s primary concern is for the safety of its students. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/10 "2013-06-13T17:10:58Z")
If he’s dangerous enough to get a school locked down, she needs to move and change her name anyway. You could argue that making her find a new job is in the interests of her OWN health and safety. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/11 "2013-06-13T17:15:03Z")
I wonder if there might not be more to the story than we have seen. That having been said, why can’t the school take out a restraining order against the ex? He came to the school once before to cause trouble. If he shows up again, call the cops - I bet they would be eager to bust the bozo again. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/12 "2013-06-13T17:15:25Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > But it’s not like that. The party most directly responsible for the hazard is not her, it’s her loser ex-husband. The party directly responsible for Mary’s troubles was a bacteria. It isn’t about assigning responsibility for the problem, it’s about protecting the people around her. It is not her fault, but she is the epicenter of the problem, and it is going to follow her around for the forseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/13 "2013-06-13T17:16:38Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > How about somewhere between her and her ex? Her ex is not an transmissible, incurable disease. > > As a society, maybe we could make a _little_ more effort to support victims of domestic violence. Maybe this catholic school could exhibit some of that famous christian charity and help her deal with this by continuing to employ her, maybe even offer some legal assistance to help sort out how to best keep her ex at bay (e.g help with filing/enforcing a restraining order, documenting/eyewitnessing incidents, etc.). Do you have a concrete suggestion for a way to keep her in the school, but actually prevent the ex from coming on the premises, or just platitudes? The restraining order she already had didn’t work. Waiting until he comes on premises then having him arrested doesn’t stop the disruption to the school. How about explosive charges in his carotid arteries, primed to go off if he comes within 1000 ft of the school, like they did to Snake Plissken? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/14 "2013-06-13T17:18:57Z")
I guess “WWJD” isn’t a common phrase at that school. What a great way to teach kids(and their parents) what Christians should do when possible adversity rears its head. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/15 "2013-06-13T17:29:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I guess “WWJD” isn’t a common phrase at that school. What a great way to teach kids(and their parents) what Christians should do when possible adversity rears its head. I know that theists always appreciate an atheist’s views on what Jesus would do. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/16 "2013-06-13T17:32:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I know that theists always appreciate an atheist’s views on what Jesus would do. Someone has to remind them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/17 "2013-06-13T17:33:02Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If the women had an incurable, untreatable mental illness that rendered her prone to random fits of murderous violence, then yes, it would be like Typhoid Mary. “Sorry, you’re mentally ill and we can’t have you endangering the kids.” > > But it’s not like that. The party most directly responsible for the hazard is not her, it’s her loser ex-husband. The party most responsible for Typhoid Mary’s problems wasn’t her, either: it was the _rickettsia typhi_\* bacteria. But since her presence brought the bacteria, she had to go. Would you bravely continue to send your kids to her classroom after such an event? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/18 "2013-06-13T17:35:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I find it hard to believe they couldn’t have moved her to another school, though. Move her to another school, and don’t tell anyone there about her past? I sure can’t see any possible way that could come back to bite a Catholic diocese. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/19 "2013-06-13T17:38:53Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Do you have a concrete suggestion for a way to keep her in the school, but actually prevent the ex from coming on the premises, or just platitudes? The restraining order she already had didn’t work. Waiting until he comes on premises then having him arrested doesn’t stop the disruption to the school. Right, because disruptions of any kind to the school are an absolute, sacrosanct no-no, even if it means having to fire a single mother from her only job, even though she didn’t do anything wrong. Just like laws against murder and rape, a restraining order doesn’t directly prevent anything from happening; it just provides penalties after the fact. If it’s not disincentive enough to prevent the first trespass, then after he’s spent 6-12 months in jail maybe it’ll be enough of a disincentive to prevent a second trespass. Is this woman really to be given zero support? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907/20 "2013-06-13T17:39:35Z")
Would it be possible to charge him with one count of child endangerment for each student? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fires-teacher-because-her-jailed-ex-might-cause-trouble-when-he-gets-out-right-call-or-not/660907.md?page=2)