# School free lunches for all! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891 "2014-08-05T20:28:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/81 "2014-08-07T13:44:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Brunch? šŸ™‚ > > To be fair, there are programs to provide breakfast at school for poor kids, too. Itā€™s a logical extension, and one might argue that breakfast is even more important than lunch when it comes to making sure the kids can actually learn something when they are in school. True. But as far as I can tell nobody has mentioned free breakfast for everyone!!! yet. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/82 "2014-08-07T13:46:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > True. But as far as I can tell nobody has mentioned free breakfast for everyone!!! yet. I draw the line at dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/83 "2014-08-07T13:51:42Z")
What about a midnight snack? One thing I always hated about Florida public schools (and I gather this is pretty much universal in the US) is that the school day begins at an ungodly hour to accommodate all sorts of non-school things. Seriously, you want me here at 7:15 am? I went to _boarding schools_ that didnā€™t make me wake up that early. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/84 "2014-08-07T13:54:22Z")
```auto ``` IIRC, students who qualify for free lunch are automatically eligible for free breakfast too. And I donā€™t have problem with making breakfast free for everyone either, as long as breakfast isnā€™t a cinnamon roll and chocolate milk. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/85 "2014-08-07T14:20:36Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > This doesnā€™t seem to me to be a sound economic decision for our federal tax dollars. If 60% of families can afford to pay for some or all of their lunch costs, why would we now make the decision to just cover the costs for everybody? I donā€™t think the Feds pay the entire added cost; I think the individual school district comes up with most of it. (Note that the local community _taken as a whole_ still shows a net profit on the deal.) But either way, the net effect is that $100,000 additional tax revenue is spent to provide $100,000 of food. (Or $110,000 if streamlining due to the distinction elimination saves money.) Why are Americans so distressed when a program might transfer a little money from the rich to the poor? Given that School Lunch programs were started by the Marxists Roosevelt and Truman, Iā€™m surprised there isnā€™t more call to abolish them altogether. šŸ˜› In some cultures, the highest-income person picks up lunch checks almost automatically. Iā€™ve learned on this board that many Dopers are horrified to hear of that barbaric practice. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/86 "2014-08-07T14:20:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > ```auto > > ``` > > IIRC, students who qualify for free lunch are automatically eligible for free breakfast too. > > And I donā€™t have problem with making breakfast free for everyone either, as long as breakfast isnā€™t a cinnamon roll and chocolate milk. Well, whatever kids like these days, then. Cold calf brains on toast, wheat grass juice and espresso, I think? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/87 "2014-08-07T14:24:59Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, whatever kids like these days, then. Cold calf brains on toast, wheat grass juice and espresso, I think? The kids where I live typically have sushi for lunch. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/88 "2014-08-07T14:26:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You seem to be confused about the distinction between breakfast and lunch. Free breakfast at school is increasingly common, all over the country. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/89 "2014-08-07T14:39:20Z")
Yea, I would get breakfast and lunch at my high school. Breakfast was good when I overslept and had to rush to leave home for school on time, or when my parents forgot to buy the cereal, or when I knew that I would have a busy day with a short lunch break. Lunch was a given, and I seldom took money to school. My parents didnā€™t believe in allowances, and why give me money, when I could get the lunch for free. Eat the lunch, or go hungry, those were my options. And lunch at least had 2-3 things decent (milk, fruit, and rice), with an occasional chance of awesomeness (not so bad mystery meat, seasonal foods, semi-decent pasta). But I guess it is also a different culture and a different mindset. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/90 "2014-08-07T15:01:06Z")
Regarding the rumination about what ā€œlessonā€ giving children free lunches would teach them, I would think the lesson would be that they live in a civilized first-world nation where children donā€™t need to go hungry. One wonders what lesson denying them food is supposed to teach them. Granted, no one here has yet brought up any cost figures or studies of long-term impacts, but Iā€™d be willing to bet such numbers would simply be waved away by the opponents. I think this is a good bet because this seems somewhat analogous to the debate on universal health care. The fact that itā€™s a far more efficient system and much lower cost per capita is well established, but itā€™s categorically rejected by the right because, whatever they pretend to be arguing, itā€™s fundamentally a fear that ā€œundeserving bumsā€ will get something for nothing and they will somehow be subsidizing it. But they have no problem, either in the school-lunch case or the health care analogy, paying for a vast and useless bureaucracy to keep out imaginary freeloaders. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/91 "2014-08-07T15:43:56Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Regarding the rumination about what ā€œlessonā€ giving children free lunches would teach them, I would think the lesson would be that they live in a civilized first-world nation where children donā€™t need to go hungry. One wonders what lesson denying them food is supposed to teach them. > > Granted, no one here has yet brought up any cost figures or studies of long-term impacts, but Iā€™d be willing to bet such numbers would simply be waved away by the opponents. I think this is a good bet because this seems somewhat analogous to the debate on universal health care. . . . Hogwash. Believe that ā€œThe Right ā„¢ā€ hates kids if it really makes you feel better. In my office where we spend a fair amount of money we have a sign that says: ā€œIt may be Godā€™s work to buy a new hospital to save adorable babes and cute puppies but it still costs money we donā€™t haveā€ The good idea fairy only brings the idea, never the money. Build the puppy hospital if it makes you feel all warm inside, but we donā€™t have the money for the things we are committed to buying now - the ones brought by last yearā€™s good idea fairy. Those kids you are trying to help. Theyā€™ll get to pay for this later - interest included. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/92 "2014-08-07T16:31:11Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Again, why we are in this financial mess to begin with. > > Letā€™s raise more taxes (on other people of course) to create a entitlement that will last forever. Every item in every government budget that we are paying for now was someone elseā€™s ā€œgood idea.ā€ > > And we wonder why we are in debt. I donā€™t wonder at all. Our debt started its meteoric rise with the Reagan tax cuts and only started slowing down when Clinton increased taxes then resumed its meteoric rise when Bush Jr. cut taxes again. To be sure, medicare presents a long term issue but hopefully we will have universal healthcare soon. Social security can be made solvent simply by removing the cap. Our military spending is about triple Chinaā€™s and about 7 times Russiaā€™s. If we limited military spending to what China and Russia spend combined, we could balance the budget. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/93 "2014-08-07T17:50:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I donā€™t wonder at all. > > Our debt started its meteoric rise with the Reagan tax cuts and only started slowing down when Clinton increased taxes then resumed its meteoric rise when Bush Jr. cut taxes again. > > To be sure, medicare presents a long term issue but hopefully we will have universal healthcare soon. > > Social security can be made solvent simply by removing the cap. > > Our military spending is about triple Chinaā€™s and about 7 times Russiaā€™s. If we limited military spending to what China and Russia spend combined, we could balance the budget. Iā€™d point out that you forget to put a cite for DOD deficit numbers but then again you canā€™t because itā€™s not true. And what you did discuss - Defense Spending, Medicare and Social Security - care to comment what is the only one of these that is actually declining and declining as a percentage of GDP as opposed to what is growing? Letā€™s look at what else you said. For social security: remove the cap so that people can pay much more into the system than they will ever be allowed to take out. Translated solution: ā€œTax the rich!!ā€ For runaway entitlements such as Medicare: ā€œpresents a long term issueā€ (what the hell does that mean other than letā€™s just waive that one away!) ā€œbut hopefully we will have universal healthcare soon.ā€ (because universal health care will be free!!!). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/94 "2014-08-07T18:07:42Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > The good idea fairy only brings the idea, never the money. Build the puppy hospital if it makes you feel all warm inside, but we donā€™t have the money for the things we are committed to buying now - the ones brought by last yearā€™s good idea fairy. Those kids you are trying to help. Theyā€™ll get to pay for this later - interest included. Yet oddly enough, thereā€™s _ **always** _ money for tax breaks for megalithic multinational corporations, Wall Street, and other supposed Job Creatorsā„¢ who seem to do a lot more to inflate their profits than actually create any jobs, all the while legally engaged in harmful tax avoidance schemes like offshoring and declarations of offshore ownership. When children go hungry and the poor go without health care in the wealthiest country in the world, one which has both the wealthiest and the poorest citizens among all OECD nations with a growing disparity between them, Iā€™d say the problem isnā€™t lack of money but priorities that are utterly perverted by the overwhelmingly corporate-dominated political power base. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/95 "2014-08-07T18:43:54Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Iā€™d point out that you forget to put a cite for DOD deficit numbers but then again you canā€™t because itā€™s not true. Actually, youā€™re right. Itā€™s not true that reducing our Defense spending to equal that of Russia and China combined would have balanced the FY14 budget. It would, however, have saved approximately $346,000,000,000ā€¦which ainā€™t precisely chump change. (It would have left a shortfall of around $128bā€¦the smallest deficit since the Clinton surpluses.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/96 "2014-08-07T18:58:06Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yet oddly enough, thereā€™s _ **always** _ money for tax breaks for megalithic multinational corporationsā€¦ Is that like Stonehenge International, Inc. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/97 "2014-08-07T19:05:21Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Actually, youā€™re right. Itā€™s not true that reducing our Defense spending to equal that of Russia and China combined would have balanced the FY14 budget. > > It would, however, have saved approximately $346,000,000,000ā€¦which ainā€™t precisely chump change. (It would have left a shortfall of around $128bā€¦the smallest deficit since the Clinton surpluses.) Sorry, missed including the sourcing on that: > **[Updated Budget Projections: 2014 to 2024](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/45229)** > > The deficit will decrease to $492 billion in 2014, CBO projects. But under current law, deficits will begin rising again in 2016ā€”and by 2024, debt will reach 78 percent of GDP, twice the average of the past 40 years. > **[Military budget](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget#World.27s_top_15_military_budgets_2014)** > > A military budget (or military expenditure), also known as a defense budget, is the amount of financial resources dedicated by a state to raising and maintaining an armed forces or other methods essential for defense purposes. > Military budgets often reflect how strongly a country perceives the likelihood of threats against it, or the amount of aggression it wishes to conjure. It also gives an idea of how much financing should be provided for the upcoming fiscal year. The size of a budget also re... ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/98 "2014-08-07T19:10:57Z")
No, more like a sort of neologism that I created while rapidly typing standing up as I was hurrying out the door to run an errand. Feel free to substitute ā€œlargeā€ if that assists your understanding of my post. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/99 "2014-08-07T19:14:47Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, more like a sort of neologism that I created while rapidly typing standing up as I was hurrying out the door to run an errand. Feel free to substitute ā€œlargeā€ if that assists your understanding of my post. šŸ™‚ I understood it just fine. I got a little chuckle is all. FTR, Iā€™d gladly swap out $$ for DoD or special tax breaks for corporations for school lunches any day. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891/100 "2014-08-07T19:15:55Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Actually, youā€™re right. Itā€™s not true that reducing our Defense spending to equal that of Russia and China combined would have balanced the FY14 budget. > > It would, however, have saved approximately $346,000,000,000ā€¦which ainā€™t precisely chump change. (It would have left a shortfall of around $128bā€¦the smallest deficit since the Clinton surpluses.) You should have used the ā€œ.00ā€ too. Could have made that number of yours look just a tad bigger. But thatā€™s the good thing about DoD and that whole discretionary budget. You can always cut it like we are now. How are you going to do that with your run away entitlements? And this President doesnā€™t even want to think about using the military and just wants give everyone a big hug. How is that working world wide these days? You really want to give Russia even more latitude? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-free-lunches-for-all/694891.md?page=6)