# School fundraisers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 29, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723 "2006-08-29T22:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/41 "2006-08-30T14:09:26Z")
As a Junior High Schooler, we had an annual fundraising event which was for sports equipment. As the sports teacher and I cordially hated each others guts, and he only ever used the money for his favourites such as the weight club etc which 90% of us would never be allowed to touch, I refused to take part in the second year. In the third year we were informed that a refusal to take part would result in a term of daily detentions. We were ordered to get at least three sponsors for the cross country run that the entire school had to take part in. In those days in England we still had the half penny, so I went home with my form and asked my parents and my brother to sponsor me for half a penny per entire cross country run. When I handed in the form for it to be checked I had to endure thirty minutes of him yelling in my face, but he couldn’t actually give me the detentions. On the day, I ran three paces, hopped, sat down and loudly proclaimed a twisted ankle. I then had to endure a posse of teachers standing round me, berating me for feeling “no school spirit” "trying hard to spoil this event " (damn right I was!) and all kinds of verbal harrassment. I was even told by one teacher who was trying to get through to me and trying to talk to me reasonably, that if I just let go and gave in I might even enjoy myself. Yes… I enjoy being co-erced and bullied and threatened. Super duper. However being a JHS kid surrounded by angry adults I could not (dared not) verbalise all this, so sat in the mud in the centre of the circle and waited for them to stop. Then went home and refused to collect the 1.5p on the grounds that the fee had been for the whole run and I’d not completed it. I still feel soured towards fundraising to this day. Now that I am on my kids kindergarted PTA I am wasting hours in preparation for their stupid bazaar which raises about 2000 dollars with the minor input of literally a week of work from each of the 16 PTA members, not to mention all the teachers and other volunteers on and around the day. We could all put in 20 dollars at the beginning of the year and be done with it. (Upon suggesting this it was again suggested that I am not a team player. I think I agree.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/42 "2006-08-30T14:14:23Z")
[QUOTE=MsRobyn] Second, for teachers and office staff, some of these fundraising programs are a nightmare. (I’m sure **silenus** can contribute to that part of the discussion.) [/QUOTE] No kidding. The paperwork can get daunting sometimes. Luckily, our school has streamlined the procedure somewhat, and runs everything through the ASB office, where the secretary (Bless you, Kim!) has it in her computer. I never touch money, it all goes through the system. Figure out what you are going to do for a fundraiser. Get ASB approval and placement on the calendar. Order stuff to sell. Find a place in your room to store the stuff until the sale date. Distribute material to kids. Send checkout list to ASB secretary. Monitor sales and encourage the kids who are lagging. Buy stuff yourself. End sale and note who has failed to turn in their money to ASB. File forms on these kids, who will have to cough up the cash if they expect to graduate. Discover that everybody wants to go to the invitational, and you need more money. Start all over again. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/43 "2006-08-30T15:01:33Z")
[QUOTE=myskepticsight] Omg I miss those! In elementary school I’d always get excited when the new order form came out and I could go home and beg my mom to buy me 934943 books (she did, because hey, they’re books!) and when the fair came to school I was in heaven. Well until I was in Student Council and worked the book fair gift wrapping. Me = dork. [/QUOTE] LOLOLOL!!! Hi, fellow Scholastic dork! ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/44 "2006-08-30T15:11:35Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] No kidding. The paperwork can get daunting sometimes. Luckily, our school has streamlined the procedure somewhat, and runs everything through the ASB office, where the secretary (Bless you, Kim!) has it in her computer. I never touch money, it all goes through the system. Figure out what you are going to do for a fundraiser. Get ASB approval and placement on the calendar. Order stuff to sell. Find a place in your room to store the stuff until the sale date. Distribute material to kids. Send checkout list to ASB secretary. Monitor sales and encourage the kids who are lagging. Buy stuff yourself. End sale and note who has failed to turn in their money to ASB. File forms on these kids, who will have to cough up the cash if they expect to graduate. Discover that everybody wants to go to the invitational, and you need more money. Start all over again. [/QUOTE] And what does all that have to do with math, science, English, social studies? The school isn’t supposed to be self-supporting, it’s not a work camp. If a public school needs more money for truly necessary things, it needs to first carefully spend what it has, and if that’s absolutely positively not enough then taxes need to be raised. ---
**Author:** ![sneezy5660](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@sneezy5660](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sneezy5660)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/45 "2006-08-30T18:03:56Z")
I’ve got you all beat. The school my daughter’s go to sends fundraiser packets home with the Special Ed. kids! Yep, that boy who can’t talk is gonna sell lots of stuff fo the school. :dubious: When I was in High School, the band and choir sold magazine subscriptions. One year the band would do it, the next yeat the choir would go. That way, you would hopefully get to them right before their subscriptions ran out. I still hate fundraisers. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/46 "2006-08-30T18:26:14Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] In Miami, you often see kids begging on street corners and busy intersections. Yes, BEGGING. One day it’s a kid holding out his baseball helmet. The next day it’s someone collected money in a deflated soccer ball. For all I know, they’re just some turkeys (yes, kids can be turkeys) trying to pull a fast one on me. [/QUOTE] There are sometimes a few little kids (around 8 years old) who hang out alone outside the public library asking for $5 for their baseball league. They don’t carry signs or collect the money in a jar. They don’t even wear their uniforms or anything advertising the team. I really do wonder if there is a team at all or if they’re working the circuit for their parents. Sad. Question: How is it possibly legal to withhold a diploma from a student because they didn’t do enough fundraising in a public school? I’m not doubting, it just seems like something that can’t possibly be legal due to being prejudiced against poorer kids. I could see if they were prevented from walking the stage if the sale was linked to earning their caps and gowns or something, but I don’t see how they can keep their diploma from them. Man, I wish I had some Girl Scout cookies right now. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/47 "2006-08-30T18:27:27Z")
Is it just me or is there something about American school culture that makes coming right out and asking for donations abhorrent, but guilting people into buying overpriced crap is a good thing? In elementary school we often got sent home with catalogs of stuff to buy (at the time I had no idea why) and my mother and grandparents would buy stuff out of them. My mom got tired of doing all the work and I didn’t want to do it. After that I didn’t do any fundraising until high school when we needed to raise money to pay for yearbooks and the senior trip. A donation to the school is a tax write-off, right? Is buying stuff also a write-off? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/48 "2006-08-30T18:29:37Z")
[QUOTE=control-z] And what does all that have to do with math, science, English, social studies? [/QUOTE] Absolutely nothing at all. But do you want a debate team? An FBLA squad? Academic Decathlon teams? Tutors? After-school programs? Field trips? Guest Speakers? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/49 "2006-08-30T18:48:57Z")
The service club my father belonged to always had one big fund raiser each year – for ages it was a dinner/dance at a restaurant. Even using a hired location, there was a lot of organizing to do AND, of course, all the costs had to be deducted from the take, leaving a lesser amount to go into their charity funds. Then came the year my father ended up on the organizing committee. He looked over the records for the past years, and discovered that even though the tickets had cost $100 per couple they ended up netting only something like $20. per. So instead of organzing a dance, they made up a letter urging the members to consider [date] to be the virtual dinner/dance – please donate $20 to our charity fund and then guiltlessly enjoy the free evening in whatever way suited them. They ended up taking in FOUR TIMES as much money, total. See, in the past, a lot of the club members and/or wives didn’t want to go to a dance or had a time conflict or couldn’t get a babysitter or couldn’t afford the $100 or a zillion other problems. But kick in a $20 for their charities? No prob. Once my father died I lost contact with that club, but for at least 12 years the 'Virtual Dance" was continued. Anyway, how about schools trying something similar? Send the kids out with a sign (or set up a ‘sale’ location that says “We usually sell $10 boxes of candy, and only get to keep $1.00 from that. Please just donate a buck and save yourself and your waistline.” I bet an awful lot of people would be happier that way. ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/50 "2006-08-30T18:54:20Z")
[QUOTE=control-z] The school isn’t supposed to be self-supporting, it’s not a work camp. If a public school needs more money for truly necessary things, it needs to first carefully spend what it has, and if that’s absolutely positively not enough then taxes need to be raised. [/QUOTE] There are a lot of things about this I don’t understand. In Washington, the Lottery was brought in, and we were told the proceeds would go to schools. They don’t. They go into the general fund. The Lottery must make a hell of a lot of money, because the payouts are enormous (it was up to 59M the other day) but it doesn’t seem to go to the schools. Then I’m told, schools are given X amount of money, and if they don’t spend it all (because they’re being careful with their funds), they get LESS next year. Because they don’t need it…right? It has to be the top-heavy bureaucracy eating up the funds, because how could local schools get anywhere between $7229 - $8128 per student per year [(source: Lake Washington School Districe ‘Connections’ online magazine)](http://tinyurl.com/gxrr5) and the teachers still have to buy hundreds of dollars of classroom materials out of their own pockers? Geez. You know what I could do with $28.9K - $32.5K per year for my four “students”? That’s half my family income, right there. I could take them on enriching ‘field trips’ every week! I could buy my curriculum textbooks new instead of having to buy them used on curriculum-swap boards. My kids could have their own decent running computer, with educational programs, instead of having to use mine (when I’m not using it). It appalls me that the schools get that much money and can’t make ends meet, so have to send the kids out to shill overpriced junk. Didn’t we have this thread last year at this time? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/51 "2006-08-30T18:58:02Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Absolutely nothing at all. But do you want a debate team? An FBLA squad? Academic Decathlon teams? Tutors? After-school programs? Field trips? Guest Speakers? [/QUOTE] The only extra-curricular at my elementary or middle schools were sports and the scouts. In HS the sports teams were the only ones who ever got a dime out of the school board or PTA. The school district had money enough to build a multi-million dollar sports stadium, but the art students had to buy their own materials. All of the other student clubs either had their members pay for everthing or fundraised. And the “guest speaker” our school had were a wast of time. Most of them were either military or ex-cons. And I had my fill of teachers telling us to have “school spirit”. All their “pep-talks” did was make me dislike the school more. ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/52 "2006-08-30T19:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=davenportavenger] Question: How is it possibly legal to withhold a diploma from a student because they didn’t do enough fundraising in a public school? I’m not doubting, it just seems like something that can’t possibly be legal due to being prejudiced against poorer kids. I could see if they were prevented from walking the stage if the sale was linked to earning their caps and gowns or something, but I don’t see how they can keep their diploma from them. [/QUOTE] They can withhold your diploma if you owe the school money. If you need to pay a band uniform you damaged, or didn’t turn in your instrument (yeah, i was a band geek), if you owe for an extracurricular activity trip that you went on, your check bounced on your prom tickets, or if you don’t turn in money that you fundraised. I don’t think you have to fundraise to graduate, but you have to turn in money that you got if you fundraised. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/53 "2006-08-30T19:27:48Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] A donation to the school is a tax write-off, right? Is buying stuff also a write-off? [/QUOTE] A limited one. I can write off $250 in school supplies I buy for my classroom each year. It doesn’t come close. If I want additional Scantron forms for practice AP tests, I have to buy them. If I want a printer in my room rather than in a separate building, I have to buy one and the cartridges myself. Additional resource material? Ditto. I don’t regret my career choice in the least, but I do wish they would fire every third person at the district office and actually put the money saved into the classrooms. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/54 "2006-08-30T19:29:30Z")
Then I re-read the last, and realize that that wasn’t what **alphaboi** was refering to. To answer **that** question: no. You can’t write off the money you spend on cookies and wrapping paper because you are getting something material in return. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/55 "2006-08-30T19:55:55Z")
I hate school fundraisers from a hippy pinko liberal point of view. Kids who come from poor neighborhoods will raise much less money for their schools. With the country’s educational systems’ return to “neighborhood schools”, poor kids get left even further behind. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/56 "2006-08-30T19:59:43Z")
I have 2 sisters-in-law that teach in elementary schools, my wife was a PTA president and currently works in a Jr High office. Most teachers that I know of buy classroom supplies out of their own pocket. Arts programs, nurses, guidance counselors…long gone. Don’t give me this “bureaucracy” and “frivolous” crap. If you don’t like fundraisers, write your representatives and tell them you’re willing to pay enough in taxes to see that schools are adequately funded. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/57 "2006-08-30T20:07:19Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Speaking for the other side… Given the ever-decreasing funding of co- and extra-curricular activities by our school districts, fundraising is the only chance some of these programs have of staying alive. We are lucky in that our district thinks highly of my Speech & Debate program, and funds us to a degree. But if I have good debaters that should be competing at Stanford, I need to find the money somewhere. It’s either leave the underclassmen twisting in the wind (something I refuse to do) or fund-raise. At least we pick on the student body of our school more than the parents. This year we are selling Carl’s Junior coupon books. They cost us $1, sell for $1 and contain over $70 in “Two-fer” and “Buy this, get that too” coupons. I figure to be sold out of them in less than a week. High school students love to eat! But in general…yeah, I can see why people get leery of it sometimes. [/QUOTE] I was just about to pop in and say the exact same thing **Silenus** did. The school I am the assist. coach at is in a not-so-good neighborhood, so it already lacks funding for everything. Even then, what little money they do have mostly goes to sports or band. We fight for our $1000 a year! We’ve done everything from what I titled the, “We’re-so-broke-we’re-having-a-car-wash-in-February-Car-Wash” (which worked, people gave us money out of pity) to selling candy. Trust me, we’d much rather just get money from the admins and save everyone the trouble, but it doesn’t always work that way. Plus, I’ve spent my fair share of hours pounding the pavement to sell any number of things for the team (especially back when I was a member). Side bar: **Silenus** , does your team like Stanford? We went this last year and just thought it was horrible. It seemed very unorganized, from a coaching end, but the kids were also unhappy with the competition. I think we’re trying Berkeley this year instead. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/58 "2006-08-30T20:15:58Z")
(Sidebar)Personally, I will never, ever, ever go to Berkeley again. I haven’t in years, and the stories I hear make me glad I go to Stanford instead. Berkeley doesn’t care about high school students in the least, and good luck getting your money back if you have a drop. They want the fees in November for a February tournament, and charge the moon. I have found the Stanford tournament to be light-years better. Of course, winning Humorous Interp a couple of years ago and Spar the year after didn’t hurt my opinion any. The tournament just grinds to a halt about Octas…you learn to expect it. But the people running the tournament really want us there, and they respond to critiques positively. (end sidebar) See my previous about gutting the district office and using the savings to fund things. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/59 "2006-08-30T20:42:06Z")
I know it sounds callous and really uncaring (No, no I won’t think about the children) but between having been homeschooled till graduation and being gay and not planning on having kids, the public school system has done nothing for me. I feel my money is better spent elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723/60 "2006-08-30T20:45:09Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] I know it sounds callous and really uncaring (No, no I won’t think about the children) but between having been homeschooled till graduation and being gay and not planning on having kids, the public school system has done nothing for me. I feel my money is better spent elsewhere. [/QUOTE] On jails to hold the kids with no future? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-fundraisers/370723.md?page=4)