# School problem - Immediate brilliant suggestion needed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 10, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082 "2004-11-10T21:17:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Keapon\_Laffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@Keapon\_Laffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keapon_Laffin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/21 "2004-11-12T02:29:20Z")
Let him decide. Then, if he chooses Scout camp, make an executive decision and overrule him. šŸ˜ƒ I wonder if this is a sign Iā€™ve been watching too much Apprentice. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/22 "2004-11-12T12:43:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Iā€™m a little surprised some people are being so dismissive of scouting vs school too. Not dismissive. But you have to set priorities. Just as my job comes before my extra-curricular activities, my childā€™s school comes before his extra-curricular activities. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/23 "2004-11-12T16:18:28Z")
Until theyā€™re a senior in high school, their occupation is ā€œstudentā€ and they are, tax-wise, a dependent. Their only job is to get smart and learn what they like to do and what they donā€™t like to do, so that they can make an educated decision about where (or whether!) to attend college, and how they intend to pay for it. Having done it, Iā€™m convinced that paying a studentā€™s way through college takes away half of the important lessons you learn while youā€™re there. Teach him to rise to the occasion and he will. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/24 "2004-11-13T01:18:34Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Not dismissive. But you have to set priorities. Just as my job comes before my extra-curricular activities, my childā€™s school comes before his extra-curricular activities. Iā€™m not sure I would equate an adultā€™s ā€œextra-curricular activitiesā€ (whatever you may mean by that) with an organized kidā€™s activity be it scouts or 4H or what. It isnā€™t like the kid wonā€™t do the interview because he wants to spend his Saturday playing video games or something. The kidā€™s ā€œjobā€ is to learn how to be a responsible adult, and that learning does not only happen in a formal school setting. IMHO **amarinth** and **jurph** have the right approach. I hope the OP comes back to tell us how it turned outā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/25 "2004-11-13T03:28:44Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > I hope the OP comes back to tell us how it turned outā€¦ As I said in #7 Iā€™ll respond in full by Sunday night. Promise. Very exhausting week. Already fell asleep at a social event earlier this evening. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/26 "2004-11-13T21:10:33Z")
OK, hereā€™s the follow-up. In a nutshell, the school caved and heā€™ll be doing the interview/testing next week. Heā€™s on the camping trip right now. Some other interesting developments occurred after writing the OP. After posting it and reading the first few responses my entire attitude toward talking to my son changed for the better. I was thinking that this was the biggest issue ever and that he was headed for a world class tantrum, acting out episode. After the above I was thinking more like ā€œLetā€™s start by talking to him and see what happens.ā€ So when I told him the facts on Wednesday night, that he might have to miss the camping trip, his response was something like ā€œOh, OK.ā€ In the meantime we went through a frustrating drama with the head of admissions about re-scheduling. We finally got a definite OK at 3 PM on Friday. At this point we had already packed for the camping trip etc. Even though I got what I wanted Iā€™m very angry that she jerked us around for so long. She should not have made us wait so long. To respond to specific questions, Iā€™ll use separate posts. Iā€™m not computer literate enough to drag those quotes neatly into this post. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/27 "2004-11-13T21:18:12Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > Well I think **Plan B** needs the kid to do more than just behave during the interveiwā€¦the kid has to be motivated to shine. A child who was resentful for missing something he was looking forward to might well ā€œbehaveā€ and go to the interview like his parents wishedā€¦then answer all questions with one word answers, look out the window when people are talking to him, sigh, essentially blow it. One way or another he needs to be WANT to do well at the interview, not just show up. If heā€™s angry at his parents it isnā€™t going to happen. Excellent point LL, and well said. This is a competitive school and the difference betweeen a perky kid whoā€™s acting like this is the greatest school heā€™s ever heard of and one whoā€™s doing a bit less can be the difference between acceptance and rejection. Not that it matters, but I was never worried about my abilliity to get him to the school for the interview. I was concerned about getting him there happy after missing the trip. Also, in case this ever comes up, never offer to give the kid a reward immediately after taking the test. Saying ā€œGive it your best and weā€™ll go to McDonalds this weekendā€ is fine. Saying ā€œGive it your best and the weā€™ll go right to McDonaldsā€ means your kid will finish the test in record time. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/28 "2004-11-13T21:41:29Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > Okay, Iā€™ll play Mister Wolf to your Vincent Vega. Some quick questions: > > 1. How many other schools has your son applied to? What are his prospects of being admitted to them, what happens if he doesnā€™t get admitted to any, and has he already been accepted to the one he wants to attend? > > 2. What is it about this school in particular that you like so much (and is that the reason that youā€™re already a big donor to it)? > > 3. How long has he been a Scout, and where are they going? Which of his best friends in the troop are going? Which ones _arenā€™t_? 1. This is the first application of the season. Heā€™ll definitely get into most of the schools - he usually ends the year with a perfect report card and did very well on the fourth grade tests - kind of equivalent to the SATs for this game. 2. There are several things about the way my older son has been treated that make this much better than the average public schools. First, itā€™s a K - 12 school so we donā€™t have to go through this again for HS if he gets in. The principal rules with an iron hand and does so with excellent judgement. Every teacher Iā€™ve had the chance to meet is a graduate of at least one top fifty college. Kids are held to very high standards, BUT (and I think this may be the most important point) when the kids canā€™t do it, thereā€™s a fallback position of letā€™s help you to do it, or to do something almost as good. The school goes to bat for the kids who work with them. There were six HS grads last spring and most, if not all got into a top college. One admission to Yale. My older son is on the cross country team, the math team and the school paper. Many of the teachers know him on a first name basis. Starting out with an average sixth grade class three years ago, when these kids reached eigth grade they came in first in the city in the big math test. The other schools that did very well all had recruited very bright kids in sixth grade. But a very important point is that there is no reasonable #2. This isnā€™t Harvard/Yale or Hertz/Avis. There are other schools which are very good academically but there are no extracurricular activities (except math team). Thereā€™s an OK neighborhood school which would be OK if my younger son were internally driven to learn. Heā€™s not. If heā€™s pushed heā€™ll learn. If not, heā€™ll hang out. The only other alternative is private school, which would be almost as good, but it costs $20,000+ per year. The reasons Iā€™m a big donor are 1) the above and 2) I think I had too much to drink on the auction night. 1. Scouting is not that important to him. He just really wanted to go on this trip. All his best friends are going. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/29 "2004-11-13T21:44:11Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Why is this school so low on your sonā€™s list? How do your priorities and his priorities stack up? If you have real reasons for overriding his preference, perhaps you can explain why, and change his mind instead of relying on bribery. I think heā€™s intimidated by it. As I said in my last post heā€™s an excellent student and should do well in any middle school. Since itā€™s more emotional than rational explaining only goes so far. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/30 "2004-11-13T21:47:45Z")
One final point. I donā€™t know if starting this thread gives me the right butā€¦the award for Outsidetheboxhumorousresponseofthethread goes toā€¦(drumroll)ā€¦mssmith537 for posts #8 and #15. And again, thanks to all for responding. It really was extremely helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/31 "2004-11-15T00:20:14Z")
Some more follow-up. He got back home a little while ago. At first he complained about how bad it was. Froze his butt off, lots of hard work. But after he got that out of his system he seemed real proud that he made it through. Said there were 18 boys there and 14 wound up crying and/or calling their parents to take them home. He felt great to be one of the survivors. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/32 "2004-11-15T00:29:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Tell him that he better like living in that Boy Scout tent. If he doesnā€™t go to that school thereā€™s a good chance thatā€™s where he will be living as an adult. Youā€™re kidding, right? Please tell me youā€™re have a sarcastic funny, and laughing on the inside at people freaked out over getting into the right Grade 6. What the hellā€™s going on here? You have to apply to get into Grade 6? Auctioning off lunch with the principal to the highest bidder? Boy, did the owners of these schools see you guys coming. I applaud their ability to separate suckers from their money. Sorry to interrupt with an OT post, but this is hyper-parenting taken to a comically ridiculous level. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/33 "2004-11-15T03:31:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Youā€™re kidding, right? Please tell me youā€™re have a sarcastic funny, and laughing on the inside at people freaked out over getting into the right Grade 6. > > What the hellā€™s going on here? You have to apply to get into Grade 6? Auctioning off lunch with the principal to the highest bidder? Boy, did the owners of these schools see you guys coming. I applaud their ability to separate suckers from their money. > > Sorry to interrupt with an OT post, but this is hyper-parenting taken to a comically ridiculous level. I have no doubt that mssmith537 meant that as a joke, and a pretty good one IMHO. Yes, we do have to apply for the 6th grade in some cities in this country. Kind of like what people do when they apply for colleges in Canada. Itā€™s all about rewarding those that make an effort. Considering how much variation there is in quality of schools I find it hard to imagine a caring parent who wouldnā€™t make at least a modicum of effort to make sure his children got into good schools. The idea of auctioning off lunch with the principal, itā€™s about a fun way to make a donation to the school. No one forced me to be the high bidder. It was entirely win/win. If I didnā€™t win the auction I probably would have made the same donation anyway. The owner of the school in this case would be the government, and yes, they do deserve a lot of credit for their ability to separate people from their money. Just a guess RJ, but I bet you are not a parent. If you are, Iā€™d love to hear how you have dealt with similar issues with your children. No sarcasm intended. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/34 "2004-11-15T04:58:37Z")
> [@Plan B](#): > > I Just a guess RJ, but I bet you are not a parent. If you are, Iā€™d love to hear how you have dealt with similar issues with your children. No sarcasm intended. I see nothing wrong with sending my children to the local public school. I received a perfectly good, well-rounded education in such schools that enabled me to gain admission to a prestigious university. If it worked for me Iā€™m sure it would work for anybody; Iā€™m no Einstein. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/35 "2004-11-15T17:00:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Youā€™re kidding, right? Please tell me youā€™re have a sarcastic funny, and laughing on the inside at people freaked out over getting into the right Grade 6. I donā€™t see what was so funny about my postsā€¦ ā€¦ok I was jokingā€¦ I can see wanting your kids to go to the best schools they can. Just keep in mind that itā€™s no guarantee that they will be happy or successful as an adult. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/36 "2004-11-15T17:54:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I see nothing wrong with sending my children to the local public school. I received a perfectly good, well-rounded education in such schools that enabled me to gain admission to a prestigious university. If it worked for me Iā€™m sure it would work for anybody; Iā€™m no Einstein. There is certainly a lot of variance between schools in the UK: I teach at a private School, which costs parents about Ā£25,000 (about $46,000) per year. They get small class sizes (typically 20), excellent facilities (Theatre, swimming pool, shooting range) and plenty of University and career advice. 98% go on to further education. My sister teaches at a good state school. Class size of 30, reasonable facilities etc. 50-60% go on to University (depending on the quality of each year group) My Dad just retired from teaching at a state school in a deprived are of London. Leaky roof, class size of 38, poor facilities, many pupils on state benefits. Most left school at 16. ---
**Author:** ![NutMagnet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@NutMagnet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NutMagnet)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/37 "2004-11-15T19:00:40Z")
> [@](#): > > My Dad just retired from teaching at a state school in a deprived are of London. Leaky roof, class size of 38, poor facilities, many pupils on state benefits. Most left school at 16. ā™Ŗ ā™« To Sirrrrrrrrrrrrrrr with Loooooooooooove ā™Ŗ ā™« ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/38 "2004-11-16T00:04:44Z")
ā™Ŗ ā™« Donā€™t stand so close to me ā™Ŗ ā™« [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/39 "2004-11-16T01:47:22Z")
Incidentally, I must stress that I am not questioning Plan Bā€™s dedication to her/his kids, nor her/his wisdom in pursuing this course of action. Iā€™m sure Plan B is an excellent parent - else, why would s/he have asked the question in the first place? I merely find it unfortunate that the school system is asking eleven year olds to compete like this, as if choosing a middle school is as important as choosing a mate. ---
**Author:** ![Burnt\_Sugar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@Burnt\_Sugar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burnt_Sugar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082/40 "2004-11-16T19:52:14Z")
> [@MrFantsyPants](#): > > No contradiction. Telling him how you feel and letting him decide is very different than telling him ā€œhe should try to please youā€. If I ever do that to my daughter, Iā€™ve failed as a parent IMO. Iā€™m a little confused. A hypothetical then: You ask your daughter to set the table for dinner. Does she do it? If yes, why? Because _she_ wants to? Or because you want her to? What happens if she doesnā€™t do it? Would you punish her? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-problem-immediate-brilliant-suggestion-needed/274082.md?page=1)