# School shooter dies in car wreck. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 29, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824 "2019-07-29T17:43:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/21 "2019-07-29T20:42:43Z")
The Arkansas state legislature has already passed law to give prosecutors the discretion to try juveniles as adults for certain violent crimes. It’s my understanding most other states have similar laws. The law has already been decided and settled years and years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/22 "2019-07-29T20:45:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > It could have been suicide but with the other guy getting killed too. edit - the other guy drove left of center so not suicide Maybe suicide by the other driver. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/23 "2019-07-29T20:48:56Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I agree. I’m glad to read this. If you’re grown up enough to shoot a bunch of innocent people, you’re old enough to be tried as an adult. Are you shitting me? He was ELEVEN fucking years old when he did that. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/24 "2019-07-29T20:55:14Z")
More calmly: Whether or not you think an eleven year old has a mind ANYTHING like an adult’s, it is worth bearing in mind his death was likely instant, whereas his wife and child survived and got to stay there in the car with his dead body. Death by car wreck is NOT pretty, and my heart goes out to them for having to endure that. I do lack the vocabulary to respond appropriately to all of you who are reveling in this development. Yes, what he did when he was a prepubescent boy was awful, and he spent nearly half of his childhood behind bars as a result. But to hold a grudge and squeal with bloodlust, never mind who else may have been hurt, I dunno. Savage? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/25 "2019-07-29T21:01:12Z")
He helped murder 5 people and wounded 10 more. Golden was the one that stole his grandfather’s rifles. Both teens were shooting. That needs to be tried in adult court. Imho Some of those wounded suffered life long injuries. The families won a lawsuit but of course they’ll never collect a dime. Neither of these criminals has any money. [https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-1998-arkansas-school-shooter-killed-crash-64619868](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-1998-arkansas-school-shooter-killed-crash-64619868) > [@](#): > > In 2017, a judge presiding over a lawsuit filed by the victims’ families awarded them $150 million in damages. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/26 "2019-07-29T21:09:00Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > And why shouldn’t juveniles always be tried as juveniles? They _are_ juveniles. The heart of that discussion is really “What is the purpose of prison?” Is it: 1. Revenge? 2. A deterrent against future crimes by others? 3. To provide safety to the public by removing the offenders from the population? 4. To help the offenders see the error of their ways and become better people? 5. Some mixture of these (or all)? Depending upon what you define is the reason for prison, that will determine how you view the “tried as a juvenile” issue. . ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/27 "2019-07-29T21:12:29Z")
Is there any doubt that an 18 year old would spend the rest of his life in prison for a mass shooting? I posted the ABC article. These two are the only surviving mass school shooters that weren’t put in prison for life. They got off with less than ten years incarceration for murdering 5 people. Really 6 if you include the pregnant teacher’s baby. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/28 "2019-07-29T21:17:01Z")
So…no difference at all between the mind of an 11 y/o and an 18 y/o. Totally good comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/29 "2019-07-29T21:31:36Z")
Surely those who think 11-year-olds should be treated the same as 18-year-olds by the criminal justice system don’t think the law shouldn’t distinguish between adults who date 18-year-olds and adults who date 11-year-olds. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/30 "2019-07-29T21:50:23Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > The heart of that discussion is really “What is the purpose of prison?” > > Is it: > > 1. Revenge? > 2. A deterrent against future crimes by others? > 3. To provide safety to the public by removing the offenders from the population? > 4. To help the offenders see the error of their ways and become better people? > 5. Some mixture of these (or all)? > > Depending upon what you define is the reason for prison, that will determine how you view the “tried as a juvenile” issue. > > . Revenge is just doing back to them what they did to you, and leaves you just as bad as they are. Deterrent effects are minimal on crimes that are emotionally based. Neither really work as the purpose for punishment. Removal and reform are, on the other hand, partners that work well together. You remove them until (or unless) they are able to reform. The difference is more that, with reform, you try harder to actually fix the issues, rather than have to keep someone locked up forever. The answer seems obvious to me as a moral being: it would be wrong for me to hold an 11 year old with a messed up brain to the same standards as an adult. Kids and even teens don’t fully understand death. Even young adults continue to engage in behavior that, once your brain develops, seems ultimately idiotic. From there, it becomes exclusively about whether he’ll kill again. It can never, ever be about my own selfish desire for vengeance. There’s a reason why enduring moral systems try to make vengeance seem wrong–it’s dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/31 "2019-07-29T22:10:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Two teens pulled the fire alarm and shot up a schoolyard of kids with rifles. > [@aceplace57](#): > > Both teens were shooting. The now-dead shooter was eleven years old at the time. What does teenager mean in your world? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/32 "2019-07-29T22:17:04Z")
Teens start at 11. I remember turning 11 and being thrilled at becoming a teen. My parents let me stay up later, start earning money mowing yards and make other decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/33 "2019-07-29T22:19:54Z")
ah yes who doesn’t remember the excitement at turning eleventeen? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/34 "2019-07-29T22:20:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Teens start at 11. > > I remember turning 11 and being thrilled at becoming a teen. Ok, so things really are different for you, because I’ve always understood the term to mean people between 13 and 19. Thir_teen_ years old to nine_teen_ years old. See how all of those ages have teen in the name? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/35 "2019-07-29T22:22:07Z")
What was the best part for you about turning 11? Was it the right to vote? Enter into contracts? Purchase tobacco? Consent to sex with any adult? Join the military? Get a job? Serve on a jury? R rated movies? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/36 "2019-07-29T22:27:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Teens start at 11. [nope.](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenager) > [@](#): > > A teenager, or teen, is a person who falls within the ages of 13 to 19 years old. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/37 "2019-07-29T22:28:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Teens start at 11. > > I remember turning 11 and being thrilled at becoming a teen. My parents let me stay up later, start earning money mowing yards and make other decisions. This is some sort of elaborate joke, right? Do you really NOT understand why they’re called the “teens”? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/38 "2019-07-29T22:36:58Z")
Yes I understand teen comes from thirteen, fourteen… geez talk about belaboring a point. What matters is how a family chooses to assign responsibility. 11 was the year that I was allowed to start making choices. Handle a checking account, earn some money, stay up later. My parents trusted me to stay at the house alone without supervision. I wasn’t treated like a child anymore. I certainly considered myself a teen. Regardless of a silly suffix at the end of a word. This has nothing to do with a mass murderer getting a free pass. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/39 "2019-07-29T22:38:02Z")
He was 11. I believe that another reason the US penal system is considered outdated, even barbaric, is our insistence in trying children as adults. The minds of children (or even teenagers) are in no way comparable to adults. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/40 "2019-07-29T22:43:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Yes I understand teen comes from thirteen, fourteen… geez talk about belaboring a point. The reason I brought it up is that you consistently referred to both as teens, but one wasn’t and the other was the youngest age at which one is generally considered to be a teenager. It would have been different if they were both 16 or 17. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824.md?page=3)