# School shooter dies in car wreck. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 29, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824 "2019-07-29T17:43:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/41 "2019-07-29T22:49:03Z")
I remember this school shooting very well. I was growing up abroad but it was featured in the international edition of _Newsweek_. I was 11 years old at the time I was reading about it. When I saw the headline of this thread, I thought it was going to be about a school shooting that happened today and the shooter was trying to flee the scene under hot pursuit by cops and crashed his car, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/42 "2019-07-29T22:49:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This has nothing to do with a mass murderer getting a free pass. 10 years incarceration may or may not be appropriate, but it’s hardly a “free pass.” I don’t know about you, but I place great value on the years I spent out of prison between 11 and 21. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/43 "2019-07-29T22:51:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This has nothing to do with a mass murderer getting a free pass. What murderer got a free pass? This boy got 10 years. There’s no guaranty a grown up sees bars that long for murder. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/44 "2019-07-29T23:55:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Yes I understand teen comes from thirteen, fourteen… geez talk about belaboring a point. Pointing out that you are redefining the widely and commonly held definition of what “Teenage” is does not constitute 'belaboring a point". And I don’t believe your assertion that ‘justice was served’ when an innocent person lost their life for your version of justice. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/45 "2019-07-30T00:16:18Z")
Man when I was eleven I was thinking about cooking corn dogs or chicken nuggets and what cartoons to watch while I did my homework, not plotting murder, some people are very advanced for their age I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/46 "2019-07-30T00:27:38Z")
> [@pool](#): > > some people are very advanced for their age I guess. Or have a 5 year old’s outlook on ‘bang bang’ games. It varies. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/47 "2019-07-30T00:42:53Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > So…no difference at all between the mind of an 11 y/o and an 18 y/o. Totally good comparison. There’s a world of difference between a normal eleven year old and an eleven year old who goes out and commits five premeditated murders. I have no problem with treating somebody as a juvenile if they’re arrested for something like shoplifting. But I don’t think we should treat multiple murders as an example of poor judgement that a person grows out off with a little maturity. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/48 "2019-07-30T01:35:00Z")
Why not? It seems he did grow out of it to a great extent. Enough to woo and wed, and become a father. There are much worse people walking around who never see a jail cell. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/49 "2019-07-30T03:18:38Z")
Legal question about the link in the OP: It says that because these two shooters were charged as juveniles, their records were sealed. Is this standard practice for juveniles? Obviously, anyone can Google anyone’s history, and everyone “knows” what these two individuals did, but does this mean that if an employer had run a background check on these two shooters, it wouldn’t have shown the school shooting on their background? ---
**Author:** ![Dongyang2016](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58f4c7/32.png) [@Dongyang2016](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dongyang2016)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/50 "2019-07-30T05:29:51Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Are you shitting me? He was ELEVEN fucking years old when he did that. No, not shitting you at all. I think the kid should have been executed for it. If he is like that at eleven, what would he be like as an adult? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/51 "2019-07-30T05:36:59Z")
Prisons are broken failures. Redemption and reintegration is possible for everyone. Criminal behavior and poor choices are a factor of cultural/environmental circumstance and biology and are not indicators in and of themselves of “bad” people. This is doubly true for undeveloped 11 year olds. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/52 "2019-07-30T05:44:58Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Why not? It seems he did grow out of it to a great extent. Enough to woo and wed, and become a father. There are much worse people walking around who never see a jail cell. I strongly disagree. To the point that I’m amazed to see somebody say this. Somebody who goes on a shooting spree at any point in their life is not a normal person. Somebody who does it at the age of eleven is even more abnormal. And regardless of what terrible experiences warped him, you don’t return from that kind of crazy. At best a person like that might learn to fake normality. I won’t say there aren’t any worse people walking around out there. Because there are obviously other crazy people living among us. But this guy is out on the one in a million fringe. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/53 "2019-07-30T05:49:01Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Do you feel all juveniles should be tried the same as adults? If not, you’ve got to draw a line _somewhere_. (Or multiple lines defining multiple categories.) I feel age should be treated as a mitigating factor. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/54 "2019-07-30T10:31:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > What matters is how a family chooses to assign responsibility. 11 was the year that I was allowed to start making choices. Handle a checking account, earn some money, stay up later. My parents trusted me to stay at the house alone without supervision. I wasn’t treated like a child anymore. > > I certainly considered myself a teen. Regardless of a silly suffix at the end of a word. Ahh, yes. I remember my quinceañera party when I turned eleven. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/55 "2019-07-30T11:39:42Z")
> [@Dongyang2016](#): > > I think the kid should have been executed for it. If he is like that at eleven, what would he be like as an adult? When I was eleven I used to hide in the weeds beside the road and throw rocks at cars with some of my friends. The holy grail was getting a good windshield shot. By the time I was 16 I was horrified at that thought. I don’t know what Golden was like as an adult, but apparently Little Nemo does because: > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And regardless of what terrible experiences warped him, you don’t return from that kind of crazy. At best a person like that might learn to fake normality. What are your psych qualifications again? Clearly you’ve studied a nontrivial number of 11 year old delinquents and mapped their behavior well into adulthood. Where can I review your research? I’m open to have my mind changed. Look, I ain’t in here stating categorically that Golden/Grant overcame his psychotic impulsivity and was wholly reformed by the American penal system. And if he did I don’t think any news agency would dare/bother running a story on how he became a robe-wearing peacenik who had devoted his life to rescuing puppies and kittens all while having a negative carbon footprint and yaddayaddayadda. If they did, a very vocal and bloody-minded chunk of the population would quickly and eagerly demonstrate the inhumanity that persists in the human psyche even well into adulthood. I didn’t know the guy either. And I also don’t want to downplay the grief felt by people at his hands. But to say the actions of anyone at the age of eleven defines them fundamentally for the rest of their lives defies the very concept of learning, introspection, and growth. I will use myself as my cite that those are very real, and often extraordinarily transformative qualities. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/56 "2019-07-30T15:25:05Z")
> [@Dongyang2016](#): > > No, not shitting you at all. > > I think the kid should have been executed for it. If he is like that at eleven, what would he be like as an adult? Turns out he wasn’t a terrible adult. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/57 "2019-07-30T16:00:02Z")
> [@Dongyang2016](#): > > No, not shitting you at all. > > I think the kid should have been executed for it. If he is like that at eleven, what would he be like as an adult? This attitude frightens me. Eleven year olds do not know what they are doing. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/58 "2019-07-30T16:09:31Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Turns out he wasn’t a terrible adult. Exactly. Here we have an actual bonnified case study of what happens to a child murderer who is released at age 21. Unless there is more to his past history that I haven’t seen, it seems the answer is nothing much. His main crime so far seems to have been the poor driving which the OP seemed to suggest was a good thing. For those decrying his not being tried as an adult, what advantage would there have been for keeping him locked up for the last 10 years? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/59 "2019-07-30T16:53:49Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > His main crime so far seems to have been the poor driving … Going from memory here, but I believe the 59 year old dude actually entered Golden’s lane. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824/60 "2019-07-30T17:58:55Z")
> [@Dongyang2016](#): > > No, not shitting you at all. > > I think the kid should have been executed for it. If he is like that at eleven, what would he be like as an adult? I did a lot of stupid shit when I was 11 that I regret now. If you’re the same now as you were at 11, then you have a serious mental disorder, and we generally don’t execute people who are mentally ill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooter-dies-in-car-wreck/837824.md?page=4)