# School shooters are my heroes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2001, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350 "2001-03-09T15:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2001, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/41 "2001-03-09T23:26:20Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by SexyWriter \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Reacting with expressions of revulsion to JET’s vengeful fantasies is precisely what he revels in\*\* > > I bow to your wisdom and clear sense of character. Thank you for informing me. > > Do you really think psychopathy is THAT common? > > I DO wish people would stop making flippant remarks about suicide. > > -L \*\* You’re welcome. Yes to sociopathy. Me too. See you back on planet Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/42 "2001-03-10T00:02:14Z")
I haven’t read the entire thread…the OP and about a dozen responses, but one thing stands out… _Y’all are missing one important part._ **Jeremy’s Evil Twin** is saying he can understand why the kid tweaked out, because he’s been there. And then going on to remind us, forcibly, of what it’s like to be an powerless kid subjected to that social torture. Any of you remember the “Gym Class” thread in the Pit a couple of months ago? You’ve got that raised to the Nth power here. If any of you are school administrators, or know any, or are on school boards, or know board members, it might be worth your time to **show** them the OP. Might shock them out of their complacency, and discussions of “appropriate educational philosophies” – and to what hellholes the domains they manage that you entrust your kids to, have become. **Jeremy** , it took a lot of guts to say what you said. Let me point out, however, that you still need some additional therapy, if your OP truly indicates your views. In my opinion, **the unprovoked taking of the life of another is _never_ justified**. There were a lot of other things the kid (or you) could have done that would not have been so final and that would have been equally dramatic, or nearly so, and brought the same amount of attention to the problems that provoked the incident. ::: puts on flameproof suit ::: ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/43 "2001-03-10T00:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jodi \* > \*\*JEREMY – You can put me in the “you’ve got serious issues, man; get help” camp. But this intrigues me: > > > [@](#): > > > > In other words, if 10 people are happy and you are miserable, it’s justifyable to commit an act that makes THOSE 10 people miserable as well. > > . . . and . . . > > > [@](#): > > > > I have been permanently scarred and I’m a bit enraged that the “rules of the game” do not allow me to permanently scar other people in kind. > > Could you please explain under what rationale it would be “justifiable” to inflict misery upon innocent people just because you were or are miserable? Under what theory is their happiness, or lack of misery, a personal affront to you? > > I’m truly interested to hear the thought process that leads to such a conclusion. > > \*\* Well…it’s hard to understand unless you’ve been there. The simplest explanation is that if somebody has something you want, and you can’t get it no matter how hard you try, the next step is to deprive the other person of what they have, thus eliminating the envy. Yeah, this sounds terribly petulant, but it’s not exactly accurate to what I feel, so let’s try and look closer… Ok. If ONE person…say, Bill Gates…has a billion dollars, and you don’t, it’s ridiculous to try and take it from him, because he’s not indicative of the norm. Millions of other people are without a billion dollars, too, and you can commisserate with your peers about said lack of billion dollars. But if EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU had a billion dollars, and everyone with a billion dollars looked down on you and said, “Why don’t you have a billion dollars too? It’s not that hard to get…” OR they say, “Who cares about having a billion dollars, it’s not important…” Well, my point is that such a position would make you an outcast and vulnerable to general ridicule and constant isolation. Okay. Replace “a billion dollars” with “happiness”, “friendship”, “logical thought process”, and that’s basically the jist of it. My point is, this kid was deprived of whatever it was that made life bearable (I still haven’t figured out what that particular something is, although I suspect it has to do with the ability to connect with people) yet the people around him basically said, “So what? That’s life, suck on it.” So the kid picks up a gun and says, “Okay, SUCK ON THIS!!!” And the public at large says, “Oh no, we can’t have that!” and locks him up for life to protect the other lucky souls who somehow manage to be happy. Bottom line is, I get a lot of feedback from people when I complain about my life condition, and it basically boils down to, “That’s life, deal with it.” Okay, so if I took a gun and shot your daughter in the head, my attitude would be, “That’s life too…deal with it!” I mean, murder happens. It’s been around since Adam & Eve bore children (if I may use Biblical fiction as a metaphor here.) Why decry death by murder as opposed to, say, an earthquake? Anyway I hope you can make sense of my ramblings…like I said, it’s hard for even me to peer into my own mind, so I don’t blame anyone on the outside for not understanding what makes me tick. J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/44 "2001-03-10T00:15:58Z")
Boy this board is slow during the day. Anyway I’m a little surprised at the way a lot of people seem to be overreacting to my comments. I just speak what I think, is that so bad? Yes, my viewpoint is drastically different than the “status quo”, and yes, occasionally disturbing. But people are reading things into what I say that aren’t there. Okay, to specifically address the issue of whether I am “planning” something similar to what happened in San Diego – no, I am not. For one, I’m no longer a teenager, so I wouldn’t get nearly the press coverage. 🙂 For two, as far as my world is concerned, it’s just not “necessary” anymore. Yeah, I could easily cross the line and shoot up a public place like that computer programmer in Boston, or that guy who shot up McDonalds back in '84, but…why bother? Nobody would get the message, and the government would just use that incident to pass more restrictive legislation like the Brady Bill and the CDA. It’s a lose-lose situation. So I’ll just go quietly into the night like everyone else. After all, I listen to heavy metal, I do drugs, I play violent computer games…Jesus Christ!!! I don’t want to be responsible for any backlash against what I consider to be perfectly reasonable activities. Why am I still alive? Well, let me tell you, I’ve tried to fix that “problem”, MANY times, and finally gave up. Luckily there’s no current “impending crisis” in my life, at least in the short term. As long as everything remains stable, I’ll be perfectly fine living out my normal life span like everyone else. After all, Death is Inevitable. That’s really what keeps me going most days. J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/45 "2001-03-10T00:18:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay. Replace “a billion dollars” with “happiness”, “friendship”, “logical thought process”, and that’s basically the jist of it. My point is, this kid was deprived of whatever it was that made life bearable (I still haven’t figured out what that particular something is, although I suspect it has to do with the ability to connect with people) yet the people around him basically said, “So what? That’s life, suck on it.” So the kid picks up a gun and says, “Okay, SUCK ON THIS!!!” And the public at large says, “Oh no, we can’t have that!” and locks him up for life to protect the other lucky souls who somehow manage to be happy. You have talked to the people who know Andy Williams…you know that “they” said “That’s life, suck on it”? I suspect that you don’t really know Mr. Williams or his friends, or the people around him. Pretending that you have this kind of knowledge does your argument no good. > [@](#): > > Bottom line is, I get a lot of feedback from people when I complain about my life condition, and it basically boils down to, “That’s life, deal with it.” Okay, so if I took a gun and shot your daughter in the head, my attitude would be, “That’s life too…deal with it!” I mean, murder happens. It’s been around since Adam & Eve bore children (if I may use Biblical fiction as a metaphor here.) Why decry death by murder as opposed to, say, an earthquake? I’m sorry that all of the feedback that you have received for your hardships has not been helpful…I do hope that you find people who will offer you more than that. That being said, I hope you can see the difference between acts you have control over (murder) and forces of nature. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/46 "2001-03-10T00:28:06Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by tsunamisurfer: \*\*\* > Reacting with expressions of revulsion to JET’s vengeful fantasies is precisely what he revels in it, feeds off it, lives for. Your horror empowers him, reifying his narcissistic delusions and emboldening him to consider acting on them, which, of course, would culminate in his ultimate fantasy: international celebrity, courtesy of the media. He doesn’t want death–at least not his own. He wants attention, an issue his psychiatrist must battle with constantly._\* Well, you’re partly right. I do get a visceral thrill out of freaking people out, because it’s like, you know, a wake-up call. Sooo many people like to think they are safe in their cozy little jobs, families, hobbies, what have you, and that everything evil is “out there” (or on TV) – and then they discover that evil can exist in just about anyone you pass on the street. Or a message board, if you like. 😃 Sorry that you dismiss me as a troll. I’m really not such a bad guy, if you got to know me better. 🙂 In fact, I was a little shocked myself at some of the things I admitted to here, after some hours had passed. But, oh well, “just roll with it” is my philosophy. This certainly isn’t the first time I’ve “revealed too much” and I hope you all don’t hold it against me… J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/47 "2001-03-10T00:30:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeremy’s Evil Twin \* > \*\*But if EVERYONE EXCEPT YOU had a billion dollars, and everyone with a billion dollars looked down on you and said, “Why don’t you have a billion dollars too? It’s not that hard to get…” OR they say, “Who cares about having a billion dollars, it’s not important…” Well, my point is that such a position would make you an outcast and vulnerable to general ridicule and constant isolation. \*\* I’m not going to say much more, but to me this is one of the most profound, honest, and sadly true statements I’ve ever heard, especially regarding this sensitive issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/48 "2001-03-10T00:31:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\* > I’m sorry that all of the feedback that you have received for your hardships has not been helpful…I do hope that you find people who will offer you more than that. That being said, I hope you can see the difference between acts you have control over (murder) and forces of nature. \*\* No, I don’t understand the difference. Murder is a form of nature, isn’t it? Can you explain the difference to me? J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/49 "2001-03-10T00:58:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeremy’s Evil Twin \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > > \*\* > > I’m sorry that all of the feedback that you have received for your hardships has not been helpful…I do hope that you find people who will offer you more than that. That being said, I hope you can see the difference between acts you have control over (murder) and forces of nature. \*\* > > No, I don’t understand the difference. Murder is a form of nature, isn’t it? Can you explain the difference to me? > > J.E.T. \*\* * * * from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) mur·der (mûrdr) n. 1. The unlawful killing of one human being by another, especially with premeditated malice. Notice: 1. by a human being 2. pre meditated 3. unlawful get it? ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/50 "2001-03-10T00:58:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by YWalker \* > **It must be morbid curiosity that made me even open this thread. I was sickened by the title, and sickened even more by the OP. I can’t decide if you really believe this stuff, JET, or you’re just having some sick fun yanking our chains by starting off your posting career with a really offensive and insensitive series of statements.** No, I’m not yanking anyone’s chain. All I meant to do was offer a contrary (and admittedly controversial) view to all the hand-wringing and “Why? Why? Why?” that goes on every time one of these school incidents takes place. And somehow it took off in this crazy wild direction that I certainly didn’t intend for it to do…at least, not consciously. I’ve been lurking a very long time, but never posted because often I had nothing to say, and let’s face it, I’m not a very social person (for obvious reasons :D) – I actually did attempt to “delurk” on a thread discussing Dale Earnhardt’s death, but it _just_ happened to be during the time the board goes down for maintenance every night. So I went and did something else and for some reason never came back. My first post was actually on GQ about a computer scam (which turned out to be a complete waste of time) and, on a lark, I decided to broach this issue as well. Whoops. > [@](#): > > \*\* > What really scares the hell out of me, though, is that through all the reporting of these school shootings, we are creating a monster. The “school rage” thing is being identified as THE way to express teen angst or respond to harassment. It’s upped the ante. When a loner who has faced harassment for years has finally built up enough rage to seek revenge, it’s no longer enough to lash out directly at the attacker. Now anyone who has existed in the same community and allowed the bad people to attack the “victim” are deemed just as evil and deserving of revenge. If you can’t come up with a revenge response as impressive as the one at Columbine, then obviously that would mean that you are not giving the pain you suffered its just revenge. We must cause even more death and more carnage than the previous school tragedy in order to truly honor the pain we have suffered and to prove that it, indeed, was truly the worst.\*\* Well, you can probably already guess how I feel about the appropriateness of it. 🙂 Which, in fact, goes back to the point I was originally trying to make…which is, I know where the rage comes from. I’m a living example of it. These kids from Columbine, Jonesboro, etc. do not live in a vacuum. > [@](#): > > \*\* > The fact is, though, that there is no humiliation vile enough to warrant these massive assaults like this. Random shootings and bombings harm innocent people, and the damage done to them and the people who love them is a hell of a lot more permanent and traumatic than anything which could have been done to the perpetrator.\*\* Yet it’s all relative. The worst thing that has ever happened to me, from my perspective, is the worst thing that can EVER happen. Same goes for you, and everyone else. Someone who has never had anything really bad happen to them has the luxury of looking at something like Columbine and saying, “Oh, it’s the music that made them do it,” or whatever. Those who have never felt true suffering cannot empathize with those who have. And, as an aside, I really _hate_ the term “innocent victim” which is always used in these tragedies. How do we know they were “innocent”?? Are we saying that they never lied to their parents, never cheated on a test, never downloaded a song from Napster…I mean, come on. NOBODY is innocent. NOBODY is immune from hate and evil. It goes back to the “redistribution of misery” I was talking about earlier. It’s Darwinistic and Karmic. An earlier poster asked me, why would I consider such actions against a person who never did anything to me? Well, actions were taken against ME by people that I never did anything to. If I did nothing to them, why must I justify what I do to YOU??? That kind of double standard makes me sick. J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/51 "2001-03-10T01:04:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Jeremy’s Evil Twin \* > > > > No, I don’t understand the difference. Murder is a form of nature, isn’t it? Can you explain the difference to me? > > > > J.E.T. \*\* > > * * * > > from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) > > mur·der (mûrdr) > n. > > 1. The unlawful killing of one human being by another, especially with premeditated malice. > Notice: > > 1. by a human being > 2. pre meditated > 3. unlawful > get it? \*\* Oh, now I understand. You were talking about specific definitions. Yes, I understand that a murder and an earthquake are two different things. Does that answer your question? All I’m saying is that murder is a product of nature (“human nature”, if you like) which as you can see the dictionary definition does not address. Unless I’m totally missing something here? J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/52 "2001-03-10T01:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer: \* > **Take my word for it, as someone who has actually attempted suicide, that death is positively unquestionably NOT preferable to life. Not, even, to a painful life.** Uhh, hate to burst your bubble, but you did NOT experience death. if you did, you wouldn’t be here telling me this because you would be…umm, dead. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I stared death right in the face, and I quickly came to understand that death stinks. It’s not a “release” from pain or suffering, it’s absolute complete and total nothingness. When you’re alive, you experience relief from pain or suffering as a “good” feeling. Thus you might think, consciously or unconsciously, that death will give you this same feeling of “relief.” But it won’t. It can’t. When you’re dead, you don’t **have** feelings, good **or** bad. You aren’t aware that you even **could** have feelings. You’re not even aware that you’re dead. Because you’re **dead**. It’s like being knocked unconscious, except you never ever wake up. I’d say it was like being immersed in total blackness forever, except you won’t even be around to be **aware** of the blackness. 'Cause you’ll be dead. > \*\* Total unawareness sounds pretty damn good to me. Sounds like what happened is you came up against the Survival Instinct. No matter how depressed you are, your body is hard-wired by Evolution to STAY ALIVE at any cost. I can clearly remember lying in bed after a massive overdose of drugs, concentrating hard on just keeping my lungs breathing and my heart beating. It’s a bitch and I don’t know how to get past it. But hey, time will take care of itself, right? We’re all gonna die someday. J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/53 "2001-03-10T01:28:47Z")
I see what you’re saying, Poly, but at the same time, this guy isn’t just saying, “See what Hell it drives us too?” It’s more like, “Murder is a natural part of life, and totally justified.” This is so very disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/54 "2001-03-10T01:30:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \*\*\* > **JET** if the remarks about a therapist are true, please step away from your computer and contact their emergency hotline now. thank you. \*\* Not to worry, I’ve already emailed a link to this thread to my shrink. It will certainly be a source of discussion tomorrow. 🙂 No emergency here, fellas. In fact, this experience is amazingly cathartic, and I haven’t felt better in days. I’m rather baffled (and a bit amused) that so many people tend to assume that I’m hanging by a thread. …so who wants to talk about Napster instead? 🙂 😉 🙂 J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/55 "2001-03-10T01:34:39Z")
JET Thanks for the honest and thoughtful replies. I have a tough time with your perspective. One of the most ennobling characteristics of humanity is its ability to work through adversity. You seem to be deliberately glorying in your misery and problems. It seems like you’re nourishing their ability to damage you, rather than trying to work past them. You seem to delight in disturbing others by forcing them to behold your pain, and you’re certainly intelligent enough to pull it off. I for one can understand the attraction of this course of action. It must be fun. I’d have to think that it would get old pretty quick though, and eventually one of your intelligence would move on to something else. If I was in your shoes, I imagine that the thing that would make me move on would be the realization that I wasn’t particularly original, and that quite a large number of the people I was trying to shock weren’t impressed. You see, they’ve seen youre ilk before, and been through far worse themselves with neither complaint, nor melodrama. They healed their scars, or carried them with pride. Preserving them is just cowardly. If you don’t heal yourself, and face life there’s no chance you’ll get scarred again, is there? Worse still is the possibility of just enjoying the attention. The problem with the latter course of action is always trying to find new people to impress though, as people tend to move on with life pretty quickly. The threat of random and sudden death has been around for quite a while, you see. **Most** people live and have lived well both through that, and far worse. Join them if you like. In other words, Shit happens. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/56 "2001-03-10T01:38:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **I see what you’re saying, Poly, but at the same time, this guy isn’t just saying, “See what Hell it drives us too?” It’s more like, "Murder is a natural part of life, and totally justified."** A natural part of life, yes. Totally justified, no. Rather gaping logic leap you made there. Well, murder _can_ be justified in certain circumstances. Like the San Diego thing. Or if someone comes at you with a knife. But in most cases, it’s just “something that happens”. J.E.T. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/57 "2001-03-10T01:42:14Z")
I guess I just don’t see the debate here. Unless it’s whether or not to coddle ol’ JET. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/58 "2001-03-10T01:46:21Z")
No, murder in San Diego was not justified, in any way. If you want to say it would be justified for someone to have murdered Hitler, or murdered in self-defense, I could go along. But school shootings? No way. ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/59 "2001-03-10T01:53:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeremy’s Evil Twin \* > No, I’m not yanking anyone’s chain. All I meant to do was offer a contrary (and admittedly controversial) view to all the hand-wringing and “Why? Why? Why?” that goes on every time one of these school incidents takes place. And somehow it took off in this crazy wild direction that I certainly didn’t intend for it to do…at least, not consciously. My apologies, then, for misinterpreting your intentions. > [@](#): > > **Yet it’s all relative. The worst thing that has ever happened to me, from my perspective, is the worst thing that can EVER happen. Same goes for you, and everyone else. Someone who has never had anything really bad happen to them has the luxury of looking at something like Columbine and saying, “Oh, it’s the music that made them do it,” or whatever. Those who have never felt true suffering cannot empathize with those who have.** I don’t know the worst thing that has ever happened to you, so I can’t comment on that. However, I can heartily disagree with that statement. The worst thing that has ever happened to me is finding out that my mother had cancer on the day I gave birth to my first child, and having her die 16 days later. As much pain as that caused me, I was well aware that as much as it hurt me to lose my mother, her own pain at watching one of her own children die of cancer at age 15 was far greater than the pain I was feeling then. I am sure that as great as her pain was at that, it couldn’t hold a candle to the pain that my aunt carries with her every day because her sweet, loving, handsome son committed suicide at the age of 35. I have never suffered a miscarriage. I have never lived in a war-torn country… I realize that the worst pain I have suffered is far less than what many have suffered. Causing others to feel pain, however, will not lessen your own. > [@](#): > > \*\* > And, as an aside, I really _hate_ the term “innocent victim” which is always used in these tragedies. How do we know they were “innocent”?? Are we saying that they never lied to their parents, never cheated on a test, never downloaded a song from Napster…I mean, come on. NOBODY is innocent. NOBODY is immune from hate and evil. It goes back to the “redistribution of misery” I was talking about earlier. It’s Darwinistic and Karmic.\*\* Who appointed you keeper of the karma? I demand a recount. It’s absolutely ludicrous to say that because some kid was hurting, his lashing out and killing people at random would be OK because none of them was truly innocent. You don’t get the death penalty for cheating on tests or downloading from Napster. Your theory of “redistribution of misery” has a major flaw. It is not a redistribution at all; it is a creation of new misery in exponential proportions. And, as I said earlier, it will not serve to lessen the misery of the perpetrator. > [@](#): > > \*\*An earlier poster asked me, why would I consider such actions against a person who never did anything to me? Well, actions were taken against ME by people that I never did anything to. If I did nothing to them, why must I justify what I do to YOU??? That kind of double standard makes me sick. > J.E.T. \*\* So, seeing the evil that they have done to you, and the misery it has caused to you, you now wish to sink to their level and become what they are, rather than rising above them and doing something constructive with this? (e.g., prosecution or outing of the guilty parties, or preventing the same thing from happening to others?) I don’t get it. Obviously you have been greatly hurt at some time, and for that I am sorry. I imagine it must be a pain that you will never “get over”, but I hope that you are able to find help which will allow you to have some peace within yourself and with the rest of the world. (BTW, I had a horrendous time trying to post to the board this afternoon, too. It took me at least 30 minutes to get through with my earlier post.) ---
**Author:** ![Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Jeremy\_s\_Evil\_Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeremy_s_Evil_Twin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350/60 "2001-03-10T02:01:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*JET > > Thanks for the honest and thoughtful replies. \*\* You’re welcome. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I have a tough time with your perspective. > > One of the most ennobling characteristics of humanity is its ability to work through adversity. > > You seem to be deliberately glorying in your misery and problems. It seems like you’re nourishing their ability to damage you, rather than trying to work past them.\*\* Hmm. I had to actually sit down and think about this one. You are probably right. Thing is, what other choice do I have? Am I supposed to ACCEPT that things are the way they are, that certain things happened to me that cannot be changed? The answer is **NO.** If for no other reason, I don’t think I could handle the shame of having wasted my life. Plus there’s a sticky problem of things everyone else takes for granted that are totally closed off to me. > [@](#): > > \*\* > You seem to delight in disturbing others by forcing them to behold your pain, and you’re certainly intelligent enough to pull it off. > > I for one can understand the attraction of this course of action. It must be fun. I’d have to think that it would get old pretty quick though, and eventually one of your intelligence would move on to something else.\*\* Correct, thanks, and correct again. Keep in mind, though, this little diversion to the nether regions of JET’s soul was completely unintentional. But it did make for a very interesting day. > [@](#): > > \*\* > If I was in your shoes, I imagine that the thing that would make me move on would be the realization that I wasn’t particularly original, and that quite a large number of the people I was trying to shock weren’t impressed. > > You see, they’ve seen youre ilk before, and been through far worse themselves with neither complaint, nor melodrama. They healed their scars, or carried them with pride. Preserving them is just cowardly. If you don’t heal yourself, and face life there’s no chance you’ll get scarred again, is there? Worse still is the possibility of just enjoying the attention. The problem with the latter course of action is always trying to find new people to impress though, as people tend to move on with life pretty quickly. > \*\* I’m a little confused about the “been through far worse” part, unless you’re talking specifically about threads on this board. If you are, then you are correct, this ain’t even a flash in the pan. I read that long-ass thread about that guy (what was his name?) who told a story about deliberately scaring a woman just because she appeared to be a Yuppie bitch, and it turned out he completely lied and in fact did something else, and even that might have been a lie. Man, that thread had me glued to my seat like a Stephen King novel. And that TMI Thread…YIKES!!! Never, ever have I read any text-only document that made me go into the other room and curl up in a ball and shake uncontrollably for a few hours before I had finished reading the whole thing. This place really is something else. But if you’re talking about things that you and everyone else have personally experienced in their lives outside of this forum, then…well, I can’t say what I want to say because it’s not The Pit, but it begins with an “F” and ends with a “U”. Because you have no idea. NONE. > [@](#): > > \*\* > In other words, Shit happens. What’s your point? > \*\* Ehh, that is exactly my point, to an extent. We tell this Andy Williams kid (wasn’t he a singer?) that “shit happens, deal with it.” So he kills a few people. And everyone freaks. Well, what I say (and what I think everyone else should be saying) is, “Shit happens, deal with it.” Why can we dismiss one kid’s pain and go ballistic about another’s? (And those two kids aren’t feeling ANY pain right now! Unless Christianity is true and they never accepted Jesus…) Are you following me? It’s a double standard. …And before anyone answers, “But getting teased isn’t the same as murder!” I’ll respond, yes, you are right. Getting teased is far, FAR worse. If nothing else, just accept that I feel that way, Andy felt that way, Dylan & Eric felt that way (maybe…they were a little strange), and I’m positive that 1000’s of American teenagers feel that way as well. Which is really all I’m trying to say. J.E.T. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-shooters-are-my-heroes/57350.md?page=4)