# School sued over cameras in locker rooms **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801 "2003-07-02T16:41:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HerMajestyLorna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7cd45c/32.png) [@HerMajestyLorna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HerMajestyLorna)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/21 "2003-07-02T19:03:19Z")
Wow. That is so wrong. I can’t even imagine how I would have felt as a 14-year old girl, knowing that someone had looked at taped of my classmates and I almost a hundred times online. How grimy. ::shudder:: ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/22 "2003-07-02T19:09:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*IOW, one isolated incident in Tennessee (how many other stories of this type have you heard lately?) is proof that “education is going straight downhill in this country”. > > That’s a generalization.\*\* Yup, it is. And this story IS typical of what’s happening today. If you listen to all the insane stories about schools spending all their time on security (whether or not security issues exist – and I’m not saying they don’t, but the “solutions” are often ridiculous and ineffective), zero tolerance, over-protection of children to the point of ridiculousness, etc., etc., etc., it’s pretty clear that already limited school resources are being spent everywhere BUT on education. What happened to the teachers standing in the middle of the locker room to make kids behave, like used to happen when I was in school? Why would resources be spent on a voyeuristic system like this one, with NO ACCOUNTABILITY for the results? Have administrations been so far removed from reality that they forget that they should be spending their money to TEACH the kids, not surround them with the trappings of prisons? I stand by my generalization. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/23 "2003-07-02T23:48:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mama Tiger \* > \*\*What happened to the teachers standing in the middle of the locker room to make kids behave, like used to happen when I was in school? Why would resources be spent on a voyeuristic system like this one, with NO ACCOUNTABILITY for the results? Have administrations been so far removed from reality that they forget that they should be spending their money to TEACH the kids, not surround them with the trappings of prisons? > \*\* Because having an adult in the locker room with the kids opens a similar can of worms. Having a camera system isn’t much different from having one or more adults in the room. There is a very creepy element to having someone watch people changing their clothes. Any way you slice it, adults watching kids change for gym and back is voyeuristic, whether it be through a camera or by being physically present. In my middle and high schools, the gym teachers’ offices were right off the locker room. Enclosed enough that we had privacy, not so enclosed that we knew there was an adult nearby. That, IMO, is a reasonable compromise. Robin ---
**Author:** ![j\_kat\_251](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@j\_kat\_251](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_kat_251)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/24 "2003-07-03T01:49:43Z")
> [@](#): > > There is a very creepy element to having someone watch people changing their clothes. Any way you slice it, adults watching kids change for gym and back is voyeuristic, whether it be through a camera or by being physically present. So I suppose you and all the other people changed while staring at a predetermined spot on the floor? Because otherwise, hey, YOU’RE ALL FUCKING PERVERTS FOR STARING. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/25 "2003-07-03T04:08:59Z")
This is one of those things that is so wrong on so many levels. It’s a violation of privacy and trust on a very basic level and a possibly costly action on a legal level. And there isn’t room here to mention the moral and possible sexual implications. No excuse in the world is good enough to justify what they did. The parents and students trusted the school to have their best interests in mind, and I doubt that this was in their best interests. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/26 "2003-07-03T04:16:57Z")
> [@](#): > > So I suppose you and all the other people changed while staring at a predetermined spot on the floor? Yep. And if not looking there, I was looking at the clothes I was putting on. Never stared once. And even if other students looked, there is a vast canyon of difference between that and having grown adults staring at them without their knowledge or permission. And it is creepy. It has seedy implications of “hidden camera” sex sites and kiddie porn. And what if the tapes got out and onto the internet? What then? ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/27 "2003-07-03T04:19:50Z")
Let me clarify. by “internet,” I mean the aforementioned “hidden camera” sites, not the one the school used. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/28 "2003-07-03T04:20:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by j\_kat\_251 \* > \*\*So I suppose you and all the other people changed while staring at a predetermined spot on the floor? Because otherwise, hey, YOU’RE ALL FUCKING PERVERTS FOR STARING. \*\* What the hell? There’s a big difference between peers taking a little time to stare-and-compare and adults leering at young kids undressing. If you can’t see that, you’re too stupid for this board. ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/29 "2003-07-03T05:06:50Z")
**From MsRobyn** > [@](#): > > Because having an adult in the locker room with the kids opens a similar can of worms. Having a camera system isn’t much different from having one or more adults in the room. There is a very creepy element to having someone watch people changing their clothes. Any way you slice it, adults watching kids change for gym and back is voyeuristic, whether it be through a camera or by being physically present. I respectfully disagree. Way back when, sure we had the coaches/teachers walking around in the locker room during showers. But they didn’t stare at anybody’s shit all the time like a cam. They pretty much stayed in the office unless shit started. A cam is the always on. “Eye in the sky”. I would much rather the teachers walk around every now and then. ---
**Author:** ![Stage\_Manager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stage_manager/32/7267_2.png) [@Stage\_Manager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stage_Manager)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/30 "2003-07-03T05:50:35Z")
I find it fascinating that the attorney involved represented the parents of 16 girls… and ONE boy. Thoughts? Comments? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/31 "2003-07-03T05:54:55Z")
It’s not quite the same thing, but there was a giant hoo-ha a while ago about some branch of the Alberta government putting up on the internet profiles of children who were up for adoption. Outcry swiftly followed, page was yanked. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/32 "2003-07-03T06:12:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*It’s not quite the same thing, but there was a giant hoo-ha a while ago about some branch of the Alberta government putting up on the internet profiles of children who were up for adoption. Outcry swiftly followed, page was yanked. \*\* New rule: The term “giant hoo-ha” can no longer be used in threads discussing cameras in locker rooms. That path leads to a scary visual place. Thank you for your cooperation. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/33 "2003-07-03T06:14:42Z")
I am _sooooooo_ glad to be a resident of Tennessee! :rolleyes: And trust me, there’s a _lot_ of problems with the educational system in this state. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/34 "2003-07-03T11:05:23Z")
> [@](#): > > The lawsuit contends that images captured by the cameras were stored on a hard drive in the office of the assistant principal could be accessed from remote computers by the Internet. It claims the computer’s password security had not been changed from the factory default setting. Hmm… at first glance I’m inclinded to believe him - most people make this sort of mistake with security - but then again, how likely is it that someone else would have just stumbled on these picures even so? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/35 "2003-07-03T12:29:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Klaatu \* > \*\ ***From MsRobyn** > > I respectfully disagree. > > Way back when, sure we had the coaches/teachers walking around in the locker room during showers. But they didn’t stare at anybody’s shit all the time like a cam. They pretty much stayed in the office unless shit started. > > A cam is the always on. “Eye in the sky”. I would much rather the teachers walk around every now and then. \*\* **Klaatu** , please re-read what I said. I disagreed with the person who said that an adult should be present in the locker room while the kids were undressing. I took her post to mean “the entire time kids were in there”. I then pointed out that in my middle and high schools, the teachers’ offices were in the locker room, thus providing privacy and availability, should anything come to that. I will reiterate what I said. There is no reason for an adult to be in a locker room with half-naked kids unless there is an altercation that requires their presence. And even then, it should be a same-gender teacher. Voyeurism aside, imagine how easy it would be for a parent or child to completely misinterpret the actions of an adult on locker-room duty. It’s a scandal waiting to happen. And, if anyone’s interested, we did a lot of staring at the floor and at our clothes. We were insecure teenage girls. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/36 "2003-07-03T12:52:45Z")
Sick shit? - this certainly is. Harmful for the kids? - most probably not. Back in the day, we had a teacher who used to take photos of us in the _nude_ in the shower after football. Now that was one sick fucker - bear in mind that we were all 9 year olds. Did it harm us knowing that pervert-boy had a shit load of pics of us in the shower ? Hell no. That’s his problem. It’s not like he was molesting us. Anyway - let’s not get carried away about some idiots / perverts looking at kids. I am in no way condoning it, but let’s just get things in perspective. ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/37 "2003-07-03T14:48:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MsRobyn \* > **There is no reason for an adult to be in a locker room with half-naked kids unless there is an altercation that requires their presence. And even then, it should be a same-gender teacher.** I don’t know. After being in junior high and high school sports, you learn to lose most of your modesty pretty quickly, at least males seem to. (I can’t believe I was the only one who used this as an opportunity to see how my, er. . . _size_ stacked up compared to my peers). Coaches were always going in and out of the locker rooms. Also, as posted earlier, locker rooms can be hellish experiences for those unlucky enough to be targets of assholes. I’ve known kids who literally threw up when the time for PE class drew near because of the stress. Knowing that a coach might walk in unannounced at any time would have cut down on a lot of that. However, I totally agree with you, **MsRobyn** , about the adult being the same gender. And, BTW, cameras in a locker room has to be one the stupidest decisions I’ve ever heard of (and I’ve heard of a lot of them). ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/38 "2003-07-03T15:57:42Z")
I remember the gym teachers (same sex as the students) playing “traffic cop” trying to get all the kids in and changed before gym, then out of the gym, through the showers, and dressed and on to class after gym, and trust me, there was NOT time for any staring. I don’t remember if they were there in the room with us 100% of the time, but they sure made it known that there was no misbehavior allowed because they’d be there in a second if there was. The closest to misbehavior I ever saw was an anonymous note stuck in someone’s locker that they had B.O. (Which was kind of amazing, considering the overall ripeness level of the locker room.) I certainly never objected to having a teacher present, if it meant kids couldn’t be cruel to each other in the locker room. And the generous four minutes or so we had to shower and dress didn’t give _anyone_ much time for voyeurism. And yes, there was lots of staring at the floor in our locker rooms, too. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/39 "2003-07-03T15:59:15Z")
> [@](#): > > you learn to lose most of your modesty pretty quickly, at least males seem to. Well… not if you’re the geekboy with inferior muscle development, you [read I] didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801/40 "2003-07-03T16:15:12Z")
Yennessee schools are on the vege of total meltdown due to lack of funds. And then this happens. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/school-sued-over-cameras-in-locker-rooms/185801.md?page=3)