# Schools banning all TV and computer use
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 5, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970 "2016-05-05T06:49:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/1 "2016-05-05T06:49:54Z")
A family friend told me about a school in Australia where the parents of the primary school students have to promise to not let the kids watch TV or use computers at all.
I found an example of a similar school in the UK:
> **[The 'no-tech' school where screens are off limits – even at home](https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/29/the-no-tech-school-where-screens-are-off-limits-even-at-home)**
>
> Pupils at London Acorn School banned from using smartphones and computers and watching TV at all times, including during holidays
> [@](#):
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> …According to school rules, children are not allowed television at all before the age of 12, after that they are allowed documentaries that have previously vetted by parents. They cannot watch films until they are 14; the internet is banned completely for everyone under 16 – at home and and at school – and computers are only to be used as part of the school curriculum for over-14s…
The parents seem intelligent though since they are wealthy:
> [@](#):
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> …annual fees of up to £11,000, London Acorn is only for the wealthiest…
As far as the reason for why the school has this policy:
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> …a global study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) found that investing heavily in computers and new technology in the classroom did not improve pupils’ performance, with frequent use of computers associated with lower results.
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> Other reports have raised concerns about the potentially negative impact of social media on young people, and disruptive behaviour associated with use of mobile phones and iPads in the classroom…
On the other hand I know of schools where laptops and/or iPads are used from a very young age in schools.
Initially I was totally against the policy of schools like the one in the link but if the students end up better off educationally then I guess it is a good idea.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/2 "2016-05-05T06:59:33Z")
They are sure going to be ready for college - where communication with professors is on the computer, many assignments are turned in on the computer, and research can be done on a computer.
Sure too much computer use is bad. But far better to teach the kids proper computer use instead of banning it, such as how to find reliable sites.
Are they allowed (wired) telephones at least?
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### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/3 "2016-05-05T07:08:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#):
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> …Are they allowed (wired) telephones at least?
Yes I think that is ok at home.
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### Author:  [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/4 "2016-05-05T07:16:04Z")
I guess the world needs more Unabombers. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/5 "2016-05-05T07:41:14Z")
OK, they don’t ban all computer use. It seems they ban _internet_ use below the age of 16, and they don’t use computers in the classroom until the age of 14. If the newspaper report is accurate, there is not ban on computers at home for purposes other than the internet.
Realistically, of course, small kids are not going to be that interested in using word processing apps or spreadsheets, or doing basic coding, or doing any of the myriad other things that you can do with a computer that don’t involve the internet, but if and when they are interested in engaging with these things they are free to do so. And of course they can e-mail away to their hearts’ content once they have mastered the basics of typing.
What they won’t learn until their later years - or what they will learn only to a basic extent while in the homes of friends who go to other schools - are (a) use of the internet for research or plagiarism (or anything else) and (b) how to navigate the social spaces of the internet. I’m open to being convinced that this will not result in any educational disadvantage by the time they get to college, and could possibly result in an educational advantage, since they may have developed more rigorous reading and research skills without the internet in their formative years (much like the theory that children learn basic calculation skills better if they can’t use calculators).
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### Author:  [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/6 "2016-05-05T07:49:34Z")
wow and to think here where I live they hired a history teacher put her in a math class… in which she wasn’t good at and told every one this… so she looked up some you tube how to videos and had them watch them for homework although she did help her class get an a in their history class that year
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### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/7 "2016-05-05T07:56:27Z")
I posted it the link on Facebook and found out what the Australian schools that do this are called: “Steiner”
> **[Steiner Education Australia](https://www.steinereducation.edu.au/)**
>
> Steiner Education Australia official website. SEA is the peak body for Australian Steiner Schools. Find schools, jobs, events and resources.
A friend who is a Steiner teacher said “I have had children that are 12 years old who have never seen a television show or a movie. I think it’s fantastic!”
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### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/8 "2016-05-05T08:13:46Z")
BTW Rudolf Steiner (after which Steiner schools are named) said:
> [@](#):
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> Our highest endeavour must be to develop free human beings who are able of themselves to impart purpose and direction to their lives. The need for imagination, a sense of truth, and a feeling of responsibility - these three forces are the very nerve of education.
Also I found this interesting (on the “Digital Technology” webpage)
[http://www.steinereducation.edu.au/steiner-education/a-developmental-approach/technology/](http://www.steinereducation.edu.au/steiner-education/a-developmental-approach/technology/)
> [@](#):
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> …Handcrafts balance intellectual activities through the experience of doing and making. Students develop dexterity through learning traditional skills such as **knitting, sewing, crochet and woodwork**.They gain a sense for beauty, quality and colour, combined with creative and imaginative use of natural materials. Students design and make beautiful, useful objects through innovative, meaningful and practical activity. Handcraft in the primary school provides the basis for further learning in the secondary school, where students quickly learn to apply digital and design technologies effectively, creatively and ethically…
Some of those handicrafts are pretty complicated to learn (or at least I’ve never tried to learn them)
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/9 "2016-05-05T08:36:21Z")
The whole reason why people are more technologically literate now is that they grow up with computers. Waiting that long will hold them back, badly.
It’s also bad reasoning, if the studies just show having them in the classroom doesn’t help. You’d have to show that it’s detrimental.
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/10 "2016-05-05T08:49:16Z")
> [@JohnClay](#):
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> A friend who is a Steiner teacher said “I have had children that are 12 years old who have never seen a television show or a movie. I think it’s fantastic!”
Which gets into the question of the value of popular culture and social interaction. Is popular culture inherently worthless and detrimental to the mental and emotional function of a human being?
I also wonder what else they ban, especially with books, and how parents have enough time to enforce such bans.
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### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/11 "2016-05-05T08:51:34Z")
BTW I grew up in the 80’s. I used Commodore 64’s [looks weird without the quote] a bit in primary school and read about computers and programming in books. I learnt BASIC but in University they said that BASIC isn’t a very good language for beginners to learn so they initially taught Haskell. I only was introduced to the Internet when I was about 16. Anyway now I’m extremely computer literate. I did use DOS/Windows 3.1 computers in grade 8 at home but now I’ve had to learn Linux/Mac OS X, etc, and what I learnt earlier on didn’t really give me an advantage.
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### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/12 "2016-05-05T09:37:59Z")
As far computer literacy goes I think it can be introduced in high school without those who missed out in primary school having much of an advantage in the long run. I think proper computer courses can be more helpful than just experimenting as a young kid (edit: well experimenting is good but perhaps similar knowledge can be gained in other ways). As far as being a computer programmer goes (like I am), which may involve the greatest amount of computer literacy, it is taught in university anyway and the languages I use now (PHP/Javascript) were self-taught and initially learnt using textbooks. (though now I use things like Google to learn). Good programming (not hacking) would involve being able to see the big picture and know how to combine things in the right places - kind of like woodworking or an organised essay or mathematical techniques with algebra to arrive at an answer, etc.
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### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/13 "2016-05-05T09:57:39Z")
> [@Leaper](#):
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> Which gets into the question of the value of popular culture
Does it really disadvantage a youth if they weren’t very knowledgeable about the latest pop stars, etc, in their younger years? They can catch up when they are a teenager. BTW I’ve learnt a lot about popular culture like 80’s stuff, etc, when I was in my 20’s and 30’s.
> [@](#):
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> and social interaction. Is popular culture inherently worthless and detrimental to the mental and emotional function of a human being?
It could be better in an educational sense to be interested in geometry or woodwork, etc, in your younger years than being a popular culture expert.
> [@](#):
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> I also wonder what else they ban, especially with books, and how parents have enough time to enforce such bans.
The woman who was talking about Steiner schools yesterday (a family friend) also talked about how an English teacher had very controversial poetry in class. Perhaps they’re similar - controversial content in English can expand the mind in a educational/personal development sense which I think is in the spirit of the Steiner schools.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/14 "2016-05-05T10:09:19Z")
Why did I _know_ this was going to be a Waldorf school?
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### Author:  [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/15 "2016-05-05T10:22:11Z")
Wikipedia article about Waldorf education:
> **[Waldorf education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education)**
>
> Waldorf education, also known as Steiner education, is based on the educational philosophy of Rudolf Steiner, the founder of anthroposophy. Its educational style is holistic, intended to develop pupils' intellectual, artistic, and practical skills, with a focus on imagination and creativity. Individual teachers have a great deal of autonomy in curriculum content, teaching methods, and governance. Qualitative assessments of student work are integrated into the daily life of the classroom, with s...
> [@](#):
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> …Because they view human interaction as the essential basis for younger children’s learning and growth, Waldorf schools view computer technology as being first useful to children in the early teen years, after they have mastered “fundamental, time-honoured ways of discovering information and learning, such as practical experiments and books”…
>
> …one Google executive was quoted as saying "'I fundamentally reject the notion you need technology aids in grammar school…
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/16 "2016-05-05T10:30:07Z")
Ugh. Hipster parents are the worst.
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/17 "2016-05-05T10:34:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
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> Why did I _know_ this was going to be a Waldorf school?
My reaction as well. I went to one for two years. Strange place, but overall a positive experience IMO.
Of all the people involved, the parents were probably the weirdest.
I recall television being discouraged, but no request for parents to ban it. This was pre-internet, so that wasn’t an issue.
IIRC these schools often have measles outbreaks due to antivaxers.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/18 "2016-05-05T10:40:56Z")
The one I looked at sending my kid to (which a couple friends’ kids go to now) doesn’t allow any plastics. As in, no plastic lunchboxes or waterbottles…
They’re overall the germ of a good idea, but the more Fundie Steinerist they are, the nuttier - that man was a great illustration of having your mind _too_ open.
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### Author:  [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/19 "2016-05-05T11:31:28Z")
Why not just go full blown Amish?
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### Author:  [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-banning-all-tv-and-computer-use/753970/20 "2016-05-05T12:59:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#):
>
> The one I looked at sending my kid to (which a couple friends’ kids go to now) doesn’t allow any plastics. As in, no plastic lunchboxes or waterbottles…
I’d like to hear the reasoning behind this. I’m sure its nonsensical but i’d like to hear it.
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