# Schools being offered bribes to force kids to see Ben Stein's Creationism movie **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 28, 2008, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290 "2008-01-28T05:57:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/1 "2008-01-28T05:57:43Z")
In an effort to artficially inflate box office numbers for _Expelled_, Ben Stein’s stupid-ass Creationist/Christian persecution film, they’re offering cash [kickbacks](http://www.getexpelled.com/schools.php) to Christian schools who force their students to pay for tickets. From their [FAQ](http://www.getexpelled.com/challengefaq.php): > [@](#): > > Q:What’s the best way to get our school families to come out to the movies? > > A: In speaking with Christian Schools, we’ve found that hosting a school-wide “mandatory” field trip is the best way to maximize your school’s earning potential. Send a field trip home with your middle school and high school students, have each child pay for their own ticket, then collect the stubs at the door once you get to the movie theater. With this model, you also will be able to benefit from the ticket stubs purchased by parents who choose to come as well… > …Q: How do I turn in my ticket stubs and is there a deadline? > > A: Send the ticket stubs you’ve collected, along with the name of your school, to the following address: Ground Force Network, PO Box 1055, Rockwall, TX 75087. Ticket stubs need to be submitted within 2 weeks of the movie release date in your area. > > Q: How soon will my school receive a check from the Foundation? > > A: Within 60 days of the movie’s release. > > Q: How are the funds for the donations being provided? > > A: Being that this film is viewed as history changing, funds have been provided by the Faith and Arts Community Endeavor project, specifically for Christian schools, organizations, and groups to encourage them to see the film and engage these Important issues. I like how they talk about "maximizing your school’s **earning** potential rather than learning. I also like how they’re asking schools to not only make these trips _mandatory_, but to make these kids pay for their own tickets. It’s all pure profit for the schools. What a racket. They’re obviously looking to try to put up some big fake numbers in their first couple of weeks so they can try to sell the movie as a “hit,” but paying off schools to strong-arm their students into buying tickets seems pretty sleazy to me. I have a kid in a Catholic school andthere’s no fucking way in hell I would allow her to see this piece of shit for free, much less pay for a ticket (and I let her watch South Park and play GTA games). I don’t _think_ her school would go along with this, but I’m not positive. The school is not that political but it’s always hustling for cash – they’ve always got some kind of fund raiser going on – and I don’t think it’s impossible that they’ll take the bribe. I might have to step up and conscientiously object to something in my kids religious education. I haven’t had to do that before. I hope I don’t have to. What has become of Ben Stein. I used to like him. He’s obviously very bright, has a great wit and even his conservatism never bothered me much. This creationism thing is just too much, though. He’s far too intelligent to really believe this bullshit. I don’t understand it. The homepage I linked to for this Expelled Challenge indicates the usual conflation of evolution with the origin of the universe, though, so maybe he’s just uneducated on the subject. Get ready for an “unexpected hit” this spring, and look for the media to obligingly follow along with uncritical and uneducated stories reviving the whole fake “controversy” once again. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/2 "2008-01-28T06:02:03Z")
Personally I think Catholic schools and Christian schools are a horrible idea and if a kid gets sent to see a piece of shit movie like this, it’s their own fault. If a kid attended a regular public school and were sent to see it, shit’d be on! ---
**Author:** ![Baraqiyal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Baraqiyal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baraqiyal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/3 "2008-01-28T06:07:21Z")
I used to be a fan of his. He was kind of the anti-Trebek: the game show host who had the right to be rude and condescending, because he had to try to answer the same questions that the contestants were answering. So, yeah, kind of disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/4 "2008-01-28T06:19:03Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In an effort to artficially inflate box office numbers for _Expelled_, Ben Stein’s stupid-ass Creationist/Christian persecution film, … [/QUOTE] The IMDB synopsis does not seem to be a film that is a “stupid-ass Creationist/Christian persecution film” and they also say the film is still in production. Are you sure you got your facts straight? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/5 "2008-01-28T06:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] The IMDB synopsis does not seem to be a film that is a “stupid-ass Creationist/Christian persecution film” and they also say the film is still in production. Are you sure you got your facts straight? [/QUOTE] Yes. I’m sure I’ve got my facts right. [This](http://www.getexpelled.com/movie_overview.php) is from the same site I linked to in the OP. > [@](#): > > Ben Stein, in the new film EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed > WHAT > > His heroic and, at times, shocking journey confronting the world’s top scientists, educators and philosophers, regarding the persecution of the many by an elite few. > WHEN > > Coming to a theater near you Spring 2008. > WHERE > > Ben travels the world on his quest, and learns an awe-inspiring truth that bewilders him, then angers him and then spurs him to action! > WHY > > Ben realizes that he has been “Expelled”, and that educators and scientists are being ridiculed, denied tenure and even fired for the “crime” of merely believing that there might be evidence of “design” in nature, and that perhaps life is not just the result of accidental, random chance. > > To which Ben Says: “Enough!” And then gets busy. NOBODY messes with Ben. As you can see, the word “persecuted” is in their own promotional copy and the creationist/ID/anti-evolution agenda is quite explicit. After reviewing the IMDB entry, I don’t know what you read, but [this synopsis](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091617/synopsis) puts both the creationism and the persecution complex (with lots of false claims) on full display. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/6 "2008-01-28T06:55:09Z")
[QUOTE=drm] Personally I think Catholic schools and Christian schools are a horrible idea and if a kid gets sent to see a piece of shit movie like this, it’s their own fault. If a kid attended a regular public school and were sent to see it, shit’d be on! [/QUOTE] For the record Catholic schools have been teaching evolution for decades, the Catholic church has accepted the science behind evolution for several generations. On matters of science the Catholic church has long actually been more forward thinking than society at large here in the states. It’s a much different organization than the one which persecuted Galileo hundreds of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/7 "2008-01-28T06:58:35Z")
Private schools. I’ve known parents who take the step of sending their offspring to one, merely for the enhanced quality of education available (even if they have no affiliation with the doctrinal group that runs the school). Specifically, I’m talking about non-Catholic parents who send their kids to Catholic schools. I don’t know for certain if most other Christian schools are willing to overlook a lack of affiliation on the part of the parents. For those that are, I’d be interested in seeing the clause in the enrollment contract that permits the school to mandate extra out-of-pocket expenses (over and above tuition and fees for books and course materials) on the part of the parents. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/8 "2008-01-28T07:03:49Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] For the record Catholic schools have been teaching evolution for decades, the Catholic church has accepted the science behind evolution for several generations. On matters of science the Catholic church has long actually been more forward thinking than society at large here in the states. It’s a much different organization than the one which persecuted Galileo hundreds of years ago. [/QUOTE] Yeah, when I was in Catholic school, the only time the school hired out a movie theatre was on St. Patrick’s Day, and there was no requirement that any student go to the film\*; in hindsight, I suspect that the reason for the outing was to give parents a way of not having to deal with the kids home on a week day. \*One year it was _The Shoes of the Fisherman_; the next year, _Good Neighbor Sam_. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/9 "2008-01-28T07:04:14Z")
From what I’ve noticed, in “good ol’ Dixie,” Christian schools are chosen as a convenient way for parents to avoid having their children exposed to “undesirable elements” (read: minorities). Note: The Catholic schools aren’t involved in such inanities. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/10 "2008-01-28T07:05:15Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] For the record Catholic schools have been teaching evolution for decades, the Catholic church has accepted the science behind evolution for several generations. On matters of science the Catholic church has long actually been more forward thinking than society at large here in the states. It’s a much different organization than the one which persecuted Galileo hundreds of years ago. [/QUOTE] Awesome, I still think religion has no business in school. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/11 "2008-01-28T07:08:52Z")
What’s wrong with religion in a school run by a religious group? So long as the school meets the academic accredidation standards of the state, they can do all the preaching they want to their charges. Public schools, of course, have no business with religion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/12 "2008-01-28T07:19:48Z")
[QUOTE=drm] Awesome, I still think religion has no business in school. [/QUOTE] It has no business in _public_ schools, but it doesn’t have to be harmful in private schools. There are also reasons we send our oldest daughter (and will send our youngest daughter when she’s old enough) to a Catholic school that have nothing to do with religious indoctrination. The classroom size, the better quality of instruction, the sense of community and continuity. Catholic schools are not as heavy handed or anti-intellectual as the fundie schools are and our kids have us to help them think critically about the doctrine. I’m not woprried she’s going to be damaged. My wife and I both went to Catholic schools and our brains are both intact. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/13 "2008-01-28T07:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] What’s wrong with religion in a school run by a religious group? So long as the school meets the academic accredidation standards of the state, they can do all the preaching they want to their charges. Public schools, of course, have no business with religion. [/QUOTE] In Ontario, Catholic schools are entirely publicly funded (which pisses me off to no end) so that is my frame of reference. You can’t tell me that catholicism influences absolutely nothing that goes on in the classroom and that (in my opinion) is just plain wrong considering it’s an education provided by the government. If a school is a privately funded religious school I have less of a problem with it, but still I feel every child has the right to a top notch bias free education (or as bias free as humanly possible, anyhow) no matter what religion the parents are. My point was more directed to the publicly funded Catholic schools. If they send your kid to see some bullshit intelligent design movie, don’t bitch at me, you sent your kid to a catholic school. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/14 "2008-01-28T07:48:22Z")
Ah, then that’s messed up. In the US, private schools are just that: private. Except, of course, in areas where the loons…er, those concerned about education have managed to get education voucher laws enacted. By the way, one of my friends here in Busan is also LDS. She attended a privately-run community college which requires students to attend chapel every Sunday. Chapel, of course, is at the campus and is Presbyterian. She hated that for a number of reasons, not least of which is she’s (obviously) not Presbyterian. Contrast that requirement with BYU’s requirement that all students attending be active in their own denominations. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/15 "2008-01-28T08:08:09Z")
Yeah, I have to admit my ignorance here. I grew up in Ontario and am familiar with only the Ontario school system. I took for granted that Catholic schools are government funded everywhere (at least in the west). My own fault… I don’t know, you can probably guess by this thread alone where I stand on religion, but if you send your kid to a religious based school don’t you kind of make an assumption that this type of thing is going to happen (referring to the Ben Stein movie situation)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/16 "2008-01-28T08:24:14Z")
[QUOTE=drm] Yeah, I have to admit my ignorance here. I grew up in Ontario and am familiar with only the Ontario school system. I took for granted that Catholic schools are government funded everywhere (at least in the west). My own fault… I don’t know, you can probably guess by this thread alone where I stand on religion, but if you send your kid to a religious based school don’t you kind of make an assumption that this type of thing is going to happen (referring to the Ben Stein movie situation)? [/QUOTE] Not generally with Catholic schools. They don’t have a problem with evolution. I think the odds of my own kid’s school doing this are low, but maybe if they really want the money… ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/17 "2008-01-28T09:28:53Z")
[QUOTE=drm] Awesome, I still think religion has no business in school. [/QUOTE] That’s a funny sentiment since the Catholic Church more or less is the ideological inventor of the sort of education we’re familiar with today. While obviously I can’t sit here and claim you have to give all credit for modern education to the church, during the middle ages the church and its orders were the ones who started and operated the universities and schools. There is a long history of the church being a major driver in education, especially in the western world. The church valued education long before most states started considering it important to see people educated. Now, I certainly won’t say the Catholic Church is innocent of close-mindedness and anti-intellectual leanings–but I definitely think that is more confined to the past. Catholic schools tend to be very professionally ran and they take education seriously. The religious aspects of the schools are well compartmentalized, obviously it is not a secular environment but these are high quality schools which are _private_ and that no one _has_ to attend. There’s no harm in them as long as the children are not being given a substandard education, in fact they are very often being given a superior education to the one they would receive in public schools. In addition it’s just my impression that a lot of the negative issues with public schools (rampant discipline problems) are easier to deal with in a private school setting. I certainly don’t think ill of our public schools, and districts vary tremendously from place to place. But in some communities the public schools are, quite simply, broken. While I support the concept of continually improving such public schools, I can’t imagine why you’d send your child to a substandard public school if you had the means to send them to a better private school. Sure, fight to improve that public school, but recognize it won’t be improved in time for **your** child. Anyone sending their child to a public school is still paying the property taxes and such which provide funding for public schools. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/18 "2008-01-28T09:34:49Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Ah, then that’s messed up. In the US, private schools are just that: private. Except, of course, in areas where the loons…er, those concerned about education have managed to get education voucher laws enacted. By the way, one of my friends here in Busan is also LDS. She attended a privately-run community college which requires students to attend chapel every Sunday. Chapel, of course, is at the campus and is Presbyterian. She hated that for a number of reasons, not least of which is she’s (obviously) not Presbyterian. Contrast that requirement with BYU’s requirement that all students attending be active in their own denominations. [/QUOTE] Most western countries don’t have a First Amendment clause that prevents the establishment of a religion. Many of the most liberal democracies in Europe have official state churches which are funded with public money. Interestingly these state churches aren’t regularly attended by a very large percentage of the population and Europe in general is much more secular culturally than the United States–but legally I would argue it is less secular since in the U.S. there is a relatively strict legal separation of Church and State born out of the First Amendment and various SCOTUS acts and policies/laws across the country. I think that in an environment where your society is relatively tolerant of other religious beliefs, or is relatively secular so doesn’t care much either way, an official state church can “work.” The big issue with these when we hammered out the bill of rights is we weren’t in a world that was very religiously tolerant, and official state churches had a long history of being used to intimidate or outright persecute non-believers. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/19 "2008-01-28T11:44:59Z")
[QUOTE=drm] My point was more directed to the publicly funded Catholic schools. If they send your kid to see some bullshit intelligent design movie, don’t bitch at me, you sent your kid to a catholic school. [/QUOTE] Again, Catholicism does NOT teach intelligent design. I learned about evolution in fourth grade on up. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290/20 "2008-01-28T14:25:58Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] From what I’ve noticed, in “good ol’ Dixie,” Christian schools are chosen as a convenient way for parents to avoid having their children exposed to “undesirable elements” (read: minorities). Note: The Catholic schools aren’t involved in such inanities. [/QUOTE] From what I’ve noticed, living in “good ol Dixie” most people who send their kids to private school do so because the many of the public schools suck. (Of course, they don’t want to pay property taxes, so I guess you get what you pay for.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-being-offered-bribes-to-force-kids-to-see-ben-steins-creationism-movie/435290.md?page=2)