# Schools or courses on learning to sail (nautically)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 24, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648 "2021-02-24T16:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/21 "2021-02-27T14:46:59Z")
> [@Dadtheinhaler](#): > > And yeah, you can always practice your knots. I used to be pretty good at knots for ropework and rigging in a past profession. Can’t hurt to start over again, though! > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Can anyone recommend a good sailing simulator? I’m interested in trying one out. I’d be interested in this too. @Dadtheinhaler, your link is good, and I might take that up next time I’m in Vegas, but I’m more towards the Santa Fe side of things. Although, you reminded me that I _think_ I’ve seen ‘land yachts’ (tricycles with sails) on TV up on the Bonneville Salt Flats. I suspect the same principles in sailing would apply to water _and_ land vehicles, no? Tripler Hell, just for kicks, I should start a Santa Fe Yacht Club. Lotsa money in that town. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/22 "2021-02-27T15:38:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I never did buy another boat, though, because of distractions and other financial demands like marriage and buying a house. But ironically, the aforementioned friend who had been with me on that fateful sailing trip and had never sailed before, did actually end up buying a fairly big boat himself later on. The sailing experience really can be addicting. The problem for many would-be sailors is they buy a boat—often larger and fancier than they really need—pay for an expensive dock slip, and then figure out how much work it is that they rarely bother taking it out. It just becomes a white elephant of money and time for little actual pleasure. If you are actually an enthusiast sailer who will carve out time to sail and are handy enough to maintain and repair the boat yourself, it doesn’t have to be an endless money pit of despair (although anything on or near the water is going to require regular maintenance). Sailing is great but for anything larger than a Laser or Hobie Cat, it really needs to be a primary enthusiasm of your life to justify the expense and time it takes up. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/23 "2021-02-28T15:14:08Z")
I believe the course is in the curriculum of the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/24 "2021-02-28T15:43:23Z")
I had a quick look at that Ptcon-Castle page. Very interesting . On the pricing page they note the costs of various other adventures of a lifetime but not their own. Maybe I missed it.I guess if you have to ask… ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/25 "2021-02-28T15:55:43Z")
I dug a little deeper and its $15K per leg (3 months). ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/26 "2021-02-28T17:15:07Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Sailing is great but for anything larger than a Laser or Hobie Cat, it really needs to be a primary enthusiasm of your life to justify the expense and time it takes up. [Slight Hijack of Own Thread] Aren’t there people that live on their sailboats more or less for just this reason? [/SHoOT] Tripler Didn’t MacGuyver live on a sailboat. . . or was that a houseboat? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/27 "2021-02-28T17:33:42Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Didn’t MacGuyver live on a sailboat. . . or was that a houseboat? McGuyver seemed to live wherever the winds took him; at one point he was living in the Griffith Observatory, which seems like it would be enormous fun until the tours started. The short-lived show [_Riptide_](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086789/) (for which the high concept pitch is essentially _Magnum p.i._ meets _Revenge of the Nerds_) had three guys living together on a houseboat with a robot and a Sikorsky H-58 in the parking lot, which is a concept dreamed up by writers who a) took a bunch of 'Eightes show pitches and threw them into a blender along with leftover Evan Williams and margarita mix, b) were told by some creative exec to wedge a robot into it somehow after his kid wouldn’t shut up about how “Number 5 is alive!”, and c) had never actually lived on a boat. Living on a boat in a marina is a cramped and noisy experience full of inconvenience and annoyance even for a single person. Buying a boat just for the cool factor of living on it is something that wears thin very quickly, and it isn’t as if a sailboat appreciates in value even if you are diligent about maintaining it, notwithstanding the cost of leasing a slip. (You do not want to live-aboard on a mooring unless you are really into ‘boat culture’ and don’t have to go ashore daily for work or supplies.) If you’re going to buy a live-aboard sailboat, it should be with the intent of cruising it routinely because it is otherwise just not worth the time, expense, and aggravation otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/28 "2021-03-01T05:33:56Z")
I met a guy who tried living on his grandfather’s 30’ yacht when he was a student. He lasted only a couple of years before he cracked and rented an apartment. He said it got cold in the winter. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/29 "2021-03-01T13:43:05Z")
It appears we’re into the conversational part of the thread now, as the question has been pretty well answered. I use to work on an old leaky boat at a old marina. A guy, Dave lived at the marina for about half the year on a mini-houseboat, really a strange little party boat. This was for the warm months. But as the marina was in a beach community, each year he could find a very inexpensive winter rental to weather the cold months. The marina had shower & toilet facilities so to him it worked. Probably worked out to one of the cheapest annual rents in New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/30 "2021-03-01T23:07:30Z")
If we’re into the conversational part of the thread, I should mention that I did a trip on the Picton Castle about 15 years ago. Calling it an “adventure of a lifetime” almost doesn’t do it justice. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/31 "2021-03-01T23:21:27Z")
I almost died 3 times just off Battery Park, NYC on a smallish sailboat. Well technically, one of the three times was off Liberty State Park, NJ. But one of the best weeks of my life was as a volunteer sailor on the [Clearwater sailing the Hudson River](https://www.clearwater.org/the-sloop/) and helped to educated kids about the environment. Most of my sailing though has been on the 2 arms of the Shrewsbury River and Sandy Hook Bay. Almost all shorter sails of a few hours. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/32 "2021-03-01T23:43:29Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > > Sailing is great but for anything larger than a Laser or Hobie Cat, it really needs to be a primary enthusiasm of your life to justify the expense and time it takes up. > > [Slight Hijack of Own Thread] > Aren’t there people that live on their sailboats more or less for just this reason? > [/SHoOT] Yes, but in my experience such people are very few and far between, at least around here, though it may be more common in warmer regions. There are also people who live in bus conversions, and it’s the same sort of thing. But **Stranger** is quite right – you really need to be an enthusiast to the point of being slightly if pleasantly deranged to make the kind of time and monetary investment that a cruising sailboat requires. If you work out the cost per hour of the time you’re actually sailing on it, the cost is irrationally horrendous, unless one is very wealthy. One of the guys with a particularly nice sailboat at the marina I docked at had won millions in a lottery. But for ordinary mortals like me, I couldn’t help think about how much more efficient it would be – dollar for dollar and hour for hour of enjoyment – to put a much lesser amount of money into a really nice car that I used every day, rather than a sailboat that I used maybe 10 or 20 days a year. It’s not unreasonable to assess the cost of money of the capital investment in a decent sailboat plus the annual cost of dockage (and haul-out and storage if applicable) plus the endless accessories and maintenance to be somewhere in the ballpark of at least $10K annually, and possibly much more ($3K a year is a not-unusual annual yacht club fee, not including dock space). If you take it out 20 days a year, that’s a minimum of about $500 a day. I suspect in most cases it’s a lot more. Between no wind, no time, and the winter season, the constraints are pretty severe. Even more so if you aren’t a married sailing couple and have to get crew. Two competent people can reasonably handle a moderate-sized boat, but one person is a terrific challenge, even with aids like a furling jib and autopilot. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/33 "2021-03-02T00:21:16Z")
There is a lot to be said for working on and sailing club boats or friends boats. I’ve never owned a boat but I have a lot of hours on the water sailing. Plus some time keeping an Aircraft Carrier going. I might pick up either a small sailboat or several kayaks or canoes now that I live so close to the water. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/34 "2021-03-02T01:14:01Z")
Hey Robot Arm - tell us about it. Not that I’ll ever do it but if I found 15 grand tomorrow, I’d strongly consider it. Although it looks like at age 63, I’m not their ideal candidate. I live vicariously through some of the YouTube sailors - Adventures of an Old Sea Dog in particular. Maybe I should look into an extended charter somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/35 "2021-03-02T03:34:08Z")
There was a thread at the time; I’ll see if I can find it. A warning, though, it does not have a happy ending. I don’t think 63 is too old. There were a couple people on my trip who were about that age. You’d need a doctor’s approval before the ship will take you on, willingness to work hard, and to take orders from kids in their 20s. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/36 "2021-03-02T03:42:14Z")
> [@I sail on the morning tide, bound for the West Indies](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-sail-on-the-morning-tide-bound-for-the-west-indies/381215): > > I leave this week on a bit of an adventure. I’m going on a three-week sail-training trip on the [Picton Castle](http://www.picton-castle.com), a three-masted barque. We leave Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, on November 29th and sail to Grenada. I’ll be hauling sails, swabbing the deck, climbing the rigging and probably taking a turn at the helm; whatever it takes to sail a tall ship. They need us there a few days in advance to learn the ropes, literally. I’m flying out this Thursday, and I’ll have most of a day in Halifax if anyo… ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/37 "2021-03-02T04:26:07Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I almost died 3 times just off Battery Park, NYC on a smallish sailboat. Well technically, one of the three times was off Liberty State Park, NJ. > > But one of the best weeks of my life was as a volunteer sailor on the [Clearwater sailing the Hudson River](https://www.clearwater.org/the-sloop/) and helped to educated kids about the environment. Yes, the agony and the ecstasy – all part of sailing! The phrase “almost died” brings to mind some of my experiences on that memorable week-long first sailing trip back in my new boat. A few that I recall: - Getting becalmed in fog in the middle of crossing Georgian Bay (“bay” is rather a frivolous term for a body of water that is 50 miles wide and 120 miles long!), and, because of the moisture in the air and the engine being not in very good tune, the engine refusing to start! And not being able to see a damn thing in pea-soup fog! - Anchoring for the night well away from other boats in a pretty little inlet. Didn’t really understand why so many boats were clustered close together when there was so much open space. Later in the night, the wind came up, we started swinging on the anchor rode, and I soon understood the reason. Our part of the bay was soft mud, the other part was rocky. Pushed by the wind, we swung back and forth, the anchor dragging, unable to get a grip on the bottom. Soon there was a great commotion on the other boats, and boat hooks came out to try to fend off these morons swinging around out of control. It was unclear what would happen first: smashing into another boat, smashing into a rock, or running aground. By some miracle, none of those things happened, and with some sympathetic assistance from the other boaters, we anchored more securely for the rest of the night. - Deciding to make better time by doing some sailing at night. Getting lost at night far off the shore of Lake Huron (this was before the days of GPS). Making a beeline for bright lights that we estimated to be the harbor we were looking for. Discovering as we got close that it wasn’t a harbor, it was the Douglas Point nuclear power plant, where we assumed that a couple of drunken sailors would not be welcome in the middle of the night by guards toting machine guns! (We eventually did make it to our intended harbor, where, in proper nautical fashion, I promptly consumed another half bottle of rum while muttering praise to whatever gods there were that looked after lost sailors!) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/38 "2021-03-02T21:43:18Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The two happiest days in a boat owner’s life are they day he buys a boat…and the day he sells it.” —ancient wisdom from prehistory > > Stranger Definition of a sailboat: A hole in the water into which you throw money. On a related vein, I once invented an airplane simulator: A chair in front of a big fan. You sit in the chair with the fan blowing and rip up $50 bills. It’s just like flying your own plane. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/39 "2021-03-02T22:59:04Z")
Thanks for the link to the old thread. What a tragedy. You got to experience the highs and and one of the worst possible lows. Losing a crewmate certainly had to cast a pall over the rest of the trip. Do I understand correctly that square rigged ships, basically, have to sail down wind? While in transit, were you under sail the whole time or were the engines used to supplement the wind power? What kind of speed did she make, if you remember? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648/40 "2021-03-03T00:26:38Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Do I understand correctly that square rigged ships, basically, have to sail down wind? While in transit, were you under sail the whole time or were the engines used to supplement the wind power? What kind of speed did she make, if you remember? Square-rig ships can tack, but they’re not as good at is as a fore-and-aft sail. I think a sloop can get to about 45-degrees away from directly upwind. I think I was told that our barque could get to about 60-degrees from straight upwind. And straight downwind was not our fastest speed; the aft-most mast would catch the breeze, but the sails on the foremast would be blocked. If we turned a little bit, the wind would fill the sails on all the masts. When you’re sailing really long distances, you can take advantage of different winds in different places. Even though my trip was almost due south, we sailed southeast in the prevailing westerlies to start. I remember checking the map and it seemed like we were halfway to Africa. When we got down to the trade winds, we turned southwest. We were under sail most of the time, but it’s not a fast ship. I remember making about 6 knots. The ship was originally built as a fishing trawler in the 1920s (I think), so it wasn’t designed for speed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/schools-or-courses-on-learning-to-sail-nautically/933648.md?page=3)