# Sci Fi oriented shows that turn metaphysical in the end like Lost & BSG. Are you OK with this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918 "2010-05-27T03:57:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/1 "2010-05-27T03:57:32Z")
I was listening to radio personality “Ron” of Ron and Fez go over the Lost series this afternoon, and he mentioned that one thing that irritated him was the shell game Lost played until near the very end of being plausibly sci fi “real” until it threw in the logic towel completely and went the metaphysical route in the end. He said he felt somewhat “misled” or tricked by this. I’ve heard others voice similar complaints about Battle Star Galactica embracing the metaphysical angle pretty hard and heavy at the end. Do these complaints have any validity? Did these series abandon their sci fi oriented fans in the end? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/2 "2010-05-27T04:00:52Z")
I think this sort of thing is cheating. The series is operating under one premise, and then it just says “Never mind, we were lying all along”, and it’s very disrespectful to the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/3 "2010-05-27T04:04:56Z")
I have no problem with religion in Scifi, any more than I have issues with telepathy, warp drive and super science. As long as it is firmly introduced at the beginning, or built up throughout the show. Where I get nutty about it is when it is tacked on at the end with absolutely NO build-up or when it completely comes out of left field. That being said, Battlestar Galactica did include it pretty much from the get-go and slowly built up to the ending. It wasn’t like there wasn’t one mention or clue about it until the very ending when someone pulled mystical powers out of their ass, like, oh I dunno, the original V miniseries. The TV Universe is not our Universe. Complaining about religion or mysticim in even Star Trek, where people have amazing mental powers and super science is the rule of the day seems to be a bit beyond me. It’s not like it is a realistic Universe of hard science. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/4 "2010-05-27T04:50:35Z")
I assume spoilers for the LOST finale are okay here? Anyway, the metaphysical ending wasn’t really a cheat explanation for the island or anything like that, because it’s only an explanation for the alternate time line of season 6. It doesn’t address the fundamental mysteries of the series in any way. It may be a cheat in its own way (it doesn’t really make sense when you examine it closely as an explanation for the ATL either) There isn’t really a metaphysical cheat ending to LOST because there wasn’t really an attempt to explain anything. Stuff just happened and it ended. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/5 "2010-05-27T05:16:19Z")
SF that is about nothing but story and plot is boring, useless, pointless. If it’s not about something else, I have no use for it. When it moves from the literal to the metaphoric–or even mystical–that’s when it deepens into something real. Otherwise it’s space opera, or whatever the local variant is. Of course, it has to do it right. LOST did not; BSG did. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/6 "2010-05-27T05:44:14Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Sci Fi oriented shows that turn metaphysical in the end like Lost & BSG. Are you OK with this? No. It usually pisses me off. I can handle metaphysical aspects in a story no problem, but when a story just pulls out a bunch of unexplainable magic in the end, I generally think it’s lazy writing and/or a cop-out, and I feel cheated and disrespected, as **Lynn** does. If your story was about magic all along, go for it. But if you’ve set out creating a semi-rational, scientifically plausible setting and story, you should stick with that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/7 "2010-05-27T06:20:41Z")
_Serenity_ did this, as well. All though _Firefly_ it was only vaguely hinted that River was psychic, though everything she did could also be explained by being very highly trained and several characters scoffed at the idea. Then comes the movie; bang, she’s psychic. I found it annoying. ---
**Author:** ![kasuo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8c91f0/32.png) [@kasuo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kasuo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/8 "2010-05-27T06:41:53Z")
I liked BSG early on, especially its first season and part of its second. However when head/chip/angel Six was revealed to be some sort of angel rather than Baltar’s guilty conscience, it hurt the show’s appeal for me. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/9 "2010-05-27T06:55:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > _Serenity_ did this, as well. All though _Firefly_ it was only vaguely hinted that River was psychic, though everything she did could also be explained by being very highly trained and several characters scoffed at the idea. > > Then comes the movie; bang, she’s psychic. I found it annoying. I think you should prolly watch the series again; you’ll find that there were many times when she knew things were about to happen or knew that people were coming, etc. that no amount of training could have helped her realize. And being psychic isn’t the same as invoking a _deus ex machina_-type metaphysical story resolution; being psychic isn’t spiritual. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/10 "2010-05-27T07:41:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And being psychic isn’t the same as invoking a _deus ex machina_-type metaphysical story resolution; being psychic isn’t spiritual. Either way, it’s bullshit and I found it disappointing in what was otherwise a moderately realistic yet offbeat sci-fi series. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/11 "2010-05-27T09:31:17Z")
**NO, NO A Thousand times NO!** Star Trek Deep Space 9 did this as well and took a great series and almost destroyed it. Why Oh why can’t rational science trump metaphysical bullshit one time. Even the finally of TNG left a sour taste in my mouth with Q’s final words to Picard, something like it’s not about cataloging nebulas, in other words learning by science, it’s about the uncharted levels of being or some such new age spiritual bullshit platitudes. This also completely discounts the mission of the Enterprise, learning by exploration. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/12 "2010-05-27T09:59:36Z")
It’s bullshit. I’m fine with the god door being open a crack, for the characters to have to consider the possibility that there’s something “more” out there, because that is a perfect reflection of our actual society. Religious belief is part of who we are, and there’s nothing wrong with exploring those possibilities as they’re seen by the characters. What drives me bugfuck is when they play the ambiguous card for years, then throw the door wide open and say, “Yep, god did it! Well, that about wraps everything up! So long, folks!” Explicit answers like that are completely artificial–there is simply nothing in reality like that that any rational person can relate to. It’s a complete copout and I hate it passionately. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/13 "2010-05-27T11:16:28Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > SF that is about nothing but story and plot is boring, useless, pointless. If it’s not about something else, I have no use for it. When it moves from the literal to the metaphoric–or even mystical–that’s when it deepens into something real. Otherwise it’s space opera, or whatever the local variant is. Of course, it has to do it right. LOST did not; BSG did. Fuck that. Having everyone join a suicide cult and doom themselves to primitive deaths, throwing away everything they hoped to achieve is not doing it right. It’s a step _below_ “Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies”, and it’s a slap in the face to anyone who once liked the parts where the characters weren’t complete idiots. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/14 "2010-05-27T11:20:08Z")
It all depends. **Babylon 5** dealt with the theme (Vorlons=good; Shadows=evil) quite well. Once it dropped that, the final season was noticeably weaker. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/15 "2010-05-27T12:14:30Z")
I don’t mind metaphysics in my science fiction – heck, SF with miraculous or religious aspects has long been a staple of the field – _Stranger in a Strange Land_, anyone? I’m amazed the hard-core Sf-loving John Campbell bought the metaphysics of Herbert’s _Dune_. But when you’ve been running a science fiction franchise for a while and end it all with an appeal to metaphysical crap, blaming it all on God, then I get really annoyed. At best your motives are misplaced, but at worst you couldn’t figure out how to end it, and this is the way you try to make it all seem deep. I really shouldn’t comment, because I didn’t watch either BSG or Lost, in part because I felt they were going to deviate far from the initial premise and trail off without having a satisfying ending – if they had a definite ending at all. But Og knows I’ve seen and been disappointed by what i thought was SF pulling the Religion card out of the bottom of the stack at the end. It bothered me with _Space Children_ bacvk in the 1960s. it was hilariously badly done with _Star Crystal_ in the 1980s (the only movie where they defeat the monster – a spaceship-haunting _Alien_ rip-off – by _converting it to Christianity_). ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/16 "2010-05-27T12:50:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That being said, Battlestar Galactica did include it pretty much from the get-go and slowly built up to the ending. It wasn’t like there wasn’t one mention or clue about it until the very ending when someone pulled mystical powers out of their ass, like, oh I dunno, the original V miniseries. The miniseries mentioned God, but even the two theories mentioned back then about HeadSix (chip in the brain or psychotic hallucination) didn’t include a metaphysical explanation. While there were sprinkles of mysticism and prophecy throughout, BSG seemed to take a sharp left turn with Starbuck’s resurrection at the end of the third season. The show lost something when it decided to resolve problems through inexplicable miracles. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/17 "2010-05-27T13:35:24Z")
I know they call this kind of thing “metaphysics” in the bookstore section headings. But I didn’t know this usage of the term existed outside of bookstores. I confess: It bothers me. This isn’t metaphysics, it’s fantasy and mysticism. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/18 "2010-05-27T13:51:26Z")
Using metaphysics to deal with your ending can be a total cop-out. **Babylon 5** managed to handle it well. Even the totally meta episode (“Day of the Dead”) fit with the story. **BSG** screwed up the people, not the metaphysics. **Lost** screwed up everything. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/19 "2010-05-27T13:53:41Z")
I despise mysticism in science fiction. I’ve never watched Lost, but I loved the first season of BSG. I thought the show went rapidly downhill from there, and had an absolutely horrible ending. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/20 "2010-05-27T13:54:22Z")
Lost…that’s that show that introduced early on into the series a 2000 year old mystic, a smoke monster, and a company that’s doing research on paranormal phenomena, right? I don’t think the jump to paranormal stuff and fantasy happened as late as your friend thinks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918.md?page=2)