# Sci Fi oriented shows that turn metaphysical in the end like Lost & BSG. Are you OK with this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918 "2010-05-27T03:57:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/81 "2010-05-30T17:21:23Z")
Except that there _was_ a scientific explanation for what happened, and it was the same scientific explanation that people had guessed back when it happened. It was not inevitably ‘supernatural’. It did not ‘retroactively change’ anything. It explained something that had been left unexplained. Had an explanation been established, and then a different one offered, _that_ would have been a retcon. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/82 "2010-05-30T18:57:36Z")
An explanation WAS established, they were angels. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/83 "2010-05-30T19:25:38Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > An explanation WAS established, they were angels. No. That was your assumption. It turned out to be incorrect. Shelley Godfrey was a Cylon model, another #6. Just as had been heavily speculated at the time. And was confirmed in “The Plan”. It was utterly prosaic; no ‘mystical’ at all involved. The Six that Baltar saw and thought was all in his head _was_ an ‘angel’. That was an entirely different person/being than Shelley Godfrey. When Shelley Godfrey showed up, accused Baltar, and then mysteriously vanished, she really _did_ just toss herself out of an airlock. That had nothing at all to do with the ‘angels’. There _were_ other things in BSG that were obviously and only explicable by ‘mysticism’ – prophecies, shared visions, Starbuck. Shelley Godfrey absolutely does not fall into that category. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/84 "2010-05-30T22:16:23Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The point of BSG was _never_ “what’s going on with the mysticism?” > > The point was “what’s going on with these people?” > > The simple ‘metaphysical thud’ was to explain the extraneous, _unimportant_ bits. The HeadAngels. Starbuck. The visions and prophecies. That crap. The finale spends very little time on that, and relegates most of it to a brief epilogue. > > That’s why most of the finale deals with what happens to the _people_ we’ve been watching – whether they blow their brains out, fly into the sun, or go off to build a farm someplace far far away from their technology which chased them across the universe to kill them. > > So when those who are dissatisfied with the finale of BSG do nothing but complain about the mysticism in the finale, those of us who caught on that the mysticism was a sideline to the actual finale point out that it had been a sideline in there all along. And if you would be dissatisfied with a finale that had a mysticism sideline… you’d been watching the wrong show all along. > > No. There was a scientific explanation for that. You just had to have watched “The Plan” to learn it. It was pretty much what had seemed likely at the time, too (i.e., no ‘mysticism’). In the simplest terms, it is the inconsistency of the finale with all that comes before it that cannot be tolerated. Nevermind the mysticism. Perhaps what you think that I and others don’t get is the depth of the characterization that BSG achieved. I cannot think of any science fiction movie or series that has ever created characters as courageous, venal, and vulnerable as Adama, Baltar, Roslin, Kara, Tigh, and the Cylons. The finale served that aspect of the series fairly well. If I didn’t admire the series so much, I wouldn’t be venting about my lasting disapppointment with the finale. But…just to pick a nit, I’m going to go ahead and assume that a crapload of BSG fans thought that all that stuff about prophecies. the gods, and finding Earth was important. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/85 "2010-05-31T02:57:36Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > No. That was your assumption. It turned out to be incorrect. It was not assumption, the series ENDED and that was the explanation. The fact that something came out later that changed that makes it a retcon. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/86 "2010-05-31T15:30:27Z")
To answer the question posed in the subject, I am okay with it if it is done well and for the right reasons. Regarding the two shows in particular: BSG: I didn’t mind the religious aspects of the show, especially in the early seasons for a few reasons. First, the show was about a society that was shattered and religion is always going to be a big part of that. And second, like all good sci fi the show was holding up a mirror to contemporary society and given the era in which the show was made, religious conflict is, to say the least, relevant. What I didn’t like was how, especially in the last season, how those things began to dominate the story. First, because it was done poorly. It was tedious and repetitive. If I never again see anyone running in slow motion in an opera house it will be too soon. And second because it was a narrative crutch done with an attitude that was smug and superior. A lot of people hated the whole aspect of them giving up technology. I didn’t mind that and in fact pretty much expected something like that form the beginning (although i was sure it would end up being the Cylons who were our antecedents). What I hated was their explaining away the things they didn’t have a good answer for with magic. Lost: I feel Lost did things differently. Rather than wave its hands and say Magic was the cause of everything, it choose to just avoid answering most of those questions at all. That is frustrating, even to people who liked the finale like me, but it is a valid narrative choice. I would have loved the flash sideways to have been an alternate universe. In fact up until about 15 minutes before the end I was still convinced it was. I thought they would end up living in the alternate timeline but by gaining the memories of the original one they would be able to enjoy all the character growth they experienced on the island and thus have the best of both worlds, literally. Instead, though, mysticism was used to explain that universe away and pretty much just that universe. Mysticism, here, was used to bring closure on the characters we followed for six years and the mysteries of the Island are left unanswered. You can make an argument that leaving the rest hanging was cheat and I think that is true to a point but you can’t say they just waved away everything with a blanket answer that it was magic. Instead they just didn’t answer those things at all. For me, it was well done enough that i forgave them that fact and enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/87 "2010-05-31T16:16:05Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It was not assumption, the series ENDED and that was the explanation. The fact that something came out later that changed that makes it a retcon. No. Repeat this as many times as you like; you’ll still be incorrect. Shelley Godfrey was not mentioned again until “The Plan”. No explanation of what happened with Shelley Godfrey was given in the original episode, and no explanation other than the one in “The Plan” was ever given. It was left unexplained, until that point. Furthermore, your original point was as follows: > [@DigitalC](#): > > I’m sorry but this is wrong. In the very first season head Six materialized physically to frame Baltar then simply disappeared once her job was done. There wasn’t going to be any scientific explanations for that, from that point on you should have realized the supernatural stuff was real. This is wrong. There _was_ a scientific explanation for that – it’s the one that the writers chose to go with. Just because you’re having a snit-fit over “The Plan” coming out later does not invalidate it as to what happened in the series. It is part of the series. What is explained in “The Plan” explains the series. That it invalidates your personal fanwank of what was going on is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/88 "2010-05-31T16:21:55Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Just because you’re having a snit-fit over “The Plan” coming out later does not invalidate it as to what happened in the series. It is part of the series. What is explained in “The Plan” explains the series. That it invalidates your personal fanwank of what was going on is irrelevant. it would seem to me that creating an ending some viewers disliked and writing an explanatory episode or series for it at a later date is the ultimate fanwank. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/89 "2010-05-31T17:27:36Z")
The explanatory episode… really didn’t explain anything about the series finale. It explained a _very_ small number of other mysteries, most of which everyone had already figured out on their own (e.g., that Shelley Godfrey was just another Cylon #6 model). In that respect, it was rather disappointing. As a character study of Cylon #1, it was kinda fun though. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/90 "2010-05-31T17:42:02Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The explanatory episode… really didn’t explain anything about the series finale. I stand corrected. I didn’t see it, and i thought you were implying that it did. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/91 "2010-05-31T17:55:28Z")
Nah, I just meant that the explanations in “The Plan” are explanations that are _part_ of the series. Not some kind of pseudouberfanwankery. It’s meant to explain a few points. They’re just rather minor points. I didn’t mean to imply that it _explained the whole series_ itself, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/92 "2010-05-31T23:40:31Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Nah, I just meant that the explanations in “The Plan” are explanations that are _part_ of the series. Then my point is valid. Moore is fanning his own wank after the series is over. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/93 "2010-06-01T10:35:44Z")
BSG - The Mini Series, there was NO meta-wtf blah blah - full SciFi action Sure, people said things like “The Gods” etc, but there where NO fragging angels coming and going in visions from the “One True God” Gradualy, the action was replaced by this seeking for the higher truth. Lost, jez… Yes, we knew from the get-go, that something was fucked up on the Island and from season 2 on that it was good vs. evil batteling for redemption, peace, the soules, heaven or hell… something to that end anyhow… but the end was a bit dispointing, kinda pointless… so they sit in a church, the light and are happily-ever-after. Do mind it? Yes and no, depending on the delivery of cos. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918/94 "2010-06-06T12:17:31Z")
The fact that fans of Sci-fi series have enough imagination to backfill the gaping holes in the stories that we devote our attention to does not, and should not, relieve the writers from their ultimate responsibility to produce a coherent story. The ending of BSG was so painfully contrived that I cannot pretend to have any respect for those who thought it brought closure to the characters. The writers screwed us, and they did so blatantly. For those who are unclear about how they were screwed: They Introduced Mysteries That Seemingly Could Not Be Reconciled, and Then Did Not Reconcile Them. Introducing questions and then not answering them is not science fiction; nor is it any other form of respectable storytelling. It is just bald bullshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-oriented-shows-that-turn-metaphysical-in-the-end-like-lost-bsg-are-you-ok-with-this/540918.md?page=4)