# sci-fi without faster-than-light? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212 "2002-03-26T18:30:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/21 "2002-03-26T20:35:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Whaddabout **Blade Runner**? \*\* While there was no mention of FTL travel in the movie, the implication of it was certainly there. “I’ve seen Z-Beams glitter off the Tenhauser Gate.” and the off-world colonies, which, IIRC from the book (_ **Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep** _) are exo-solar. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/22 "2002-03-26T20:53:21Z")
If we allow suspended animation (which does not strictly violate the no-FTL stipulation), there’s a lot more Niven to add–all of the pre Man-Kzin war Known Space stories, for a start. In _A Gift from Earth_, the colonists arrived in suspended animation, and the crew woke first. That laid the foundations for the setting. Communications with Earth were via a maser with years of delay, and shipments arrived occasionally via an automated ramjet ship. For non-Known Space, there’s _Legacy of Heorot_ in which the colonists were subjected to a rather buggy version of cold sleep, and some of them came out brain-damaged. If you want to go a really long way back, there’s also _Bug Wars_ by Robert Asprin. Asprin got around the suspended animation/FTL business by leaving humans out altogether. The main race in the book was a lizard-like species that could estivate for long periods–even years at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/23 "2002-03-26T21:10:23Z")
No one’s mentioned **The Forever War** by Joe Haldeman? The whole book is based on the premise that soldiers travelling at high relativistic speeds spend about a year in transit at a time and then return home. At first, it’s little stuff like 20 years. But as they fight farther away from Earth they come back hundreds of years later! They face problems like leaving base and then encountering an enemy that’s made centuries of scientific and military progress while they were getting to the battlefield, not to mention the social upheaval, having all their friends die, etc. It’s really rather famous too, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/24 "2002-03-26T21:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\* > Arthur C. Clarke’s Rendezvous with Rama_\* Hmm. I suppose so. Doesn’t Rama have a gravity drive of some sort? I don’t remember now if it was “faster than light” or just “fast.” Oh, and don’t forget Niven’s “A World Out of Time.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/25 "2002-03-26T21:23:46Z")
There’s quite a lot of it, as has been pointed out. Robert Forward’s **Flight of the Dragonfly/Rocheworld** and its sequels. A lot of the early stories in Heinlein’s “Future History” series. Golden age Clarke and Asimov and others. Rocert Sheckley stories from the 1950s. A lot of stuff from the 1930s through the 1960s were set within the solar system (although many of the concepts of habitable Mars and Venus are now pretty outdated). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/26 "2002-03-26T21:29:18Z")
So I’m reading the thread, wondering why nobody is mentioning _The Forever War_, thinking it’s one of the best possible examples of a story that takes places across many different star systems without the benefit of faster-than-light – and, in fact, with the effects of all of that travel as a major point of the story – and then **Mighty Maximino** beats me to it by like 15 minutes. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/27 "2002-03-26T21:47:31Z")
Niven, Pournell, and Barnes’s _Legacy of Hereot_ is about colonizing without there being FTL. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/28 "2002-03-26T22:01:03Z")
Heinlein’s Time for the Stars doesn’t count for two reasons: 1. They had FTL communication 2. They had those FTL ships right at the end. Most of his earlier stuff does tho. Rocket Ship Galileo anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/29 "2002-03-26T23:11:11Z")
The sequal to _Legacy of Heorot_, _Beowulf’s Children_, was likewise strictly slower than light, as was _Destiny’s Road_, which seems to be set in the same universe. Also by Niven is _The Integral Trees_ and sequel _The Smoke Ring_. Of course, there’s plenty more if you don’t mind being stuck in-system. Most of the great SF writers didn’t introduce new technologies unless they needed them, so almost any Asimov or Heinlein stories set in the solar system will not have an FTL drive. Another one you might want to check out by Asimov, called (I think) _STL_, about the development of the first hyperspace drive. Yes, it does qualify. ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/30 "2002-03-26T23:17:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*If I remember correctly, the ship in the movie _Alien_ (the _Nostradamus_?) used a slower-than-light propulsion system. \*\* I believe the name of the ship was actually the _Nostromo_. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/31 "2002-03-26T23:58:28Z")
THen, of course, we have some short stories, novellas and novelettes, such as: Sandkings by George RR Martin Bicentennial Man by Issac Asimov Flowers for Algernon by Daniel Keyes His Award Winning Science Fiction Story by Mike Resnick Da Vinci Rising by Harry Turtledove ---
**Author:** ![Journeyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/779978/32.png) [@Journeyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Journeyman)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/32 "2002-03-27T00:00:21Z")
I’m not sure if the implication in Alien is that we’re dealing with a sublight drive, or a drive that takes a while subjectively even though it’s superluminal. Maybe the process of reaching superluminal speeds is dangerous to the crew unless they are in suspended animation. In the sequel, marines are deployed in response to a crisis, something that would be rather impractical if it were really going to take decades to get there. The sequel also refers to a daughter Ripley had back on earth, who would have been eleven years old when she returned, ahd all gone according to plan. I think the series as a whole implies faster than light travel, although it’s never said, and doesn’t affect the story very much. The important thing is that they get there on time so the rest of the film can take place, not how they get there. Still, if one looks at Alien in isolation, than it could be subluminal travel going on. There’s nothing stated in the film that requires them to have FTL travel. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/33 "2002-03-27T00:05:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\*So I’m reading the thread, wondering why nobody is mentioning _The Forever War_, thinking it’s one of the best possible examples of a story that takes places across many different star systems without the benefit of faster-than-light – and, in fact, with the effects of all of that travel as a major point of the story – and then **Mighty Maximino** beats me to it by like 15 minutes. :mad: \*\* Although, come to think of it, weren’t they also using some kind of wormholes or singularities or something? It’s been a while since I’ve read the book. It DID take them a long time to get there, but I seem to recall some strategically important “portal planets” right next to the singularities, although they were light-years distant. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/34 "2002-03-27T00:07:23Z")
Coming in late (as usual), most of what I could add have been covered. But I can think of three more, all by James P. Hogan (and not Velikovskian(sp?) like Cradle of Saturn, which has been mentioned). **Voyage from Yesteryear** : Two ships from Earth go to a planet around one of the Centauri stars (don’t recall which one). The first colonized it with frozen embryoes raised by robots, and the second was a 20-year generation ship, with half of its people born in transit. **Code of the Lifemaker** and **The Imortality Option** : The first book concerns a sublight automated factory ship that creates a society of robots on Titan, after travelling for many years through intersteller space. The sequel shows how the organic intelligences that built the factory ship could travel the same way. ---
**Author:** ![easy\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@easy\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/easy_e)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/35 "2002-03-27T01:44:35Z")
I’ll have to take a look at some of the suggestions. To clarify my OP, what I’m really interested in is interstellar travel/colonization without FTL travel/communications. It seems to me that once worlds were settled, they’d be left to their own devices. I thought the implications of that would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Yersinia\_Pestis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ccd318/32.png) [@Yersinia\_Pestis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yersinia_Pestis)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/36 "2002-03-27T02:20:46Z")
I think I remember reading a story by Roger Zelazny that dealt with settled worlds that couldn’t communicate with each other faster than light. This was a while ago and I unfortunately don’t remember the name or any of the details–I think maybe the narrator travelled off-planet and his girlfriend didn’t, so she got old before he did due to relativistic effects. There might have been a flood involved, too, or maybe I’m conflating another story. Perhaps somebody can help me out? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/37 "2002-03-27T02:37:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by toadspittle \* > **Hmm. I suppose so. Doesn’t Rama have a gravity drive of some sort? I don’t remember now if it was “faster than light” or just "fast."** Rama had a reactionless drive. The book explains that it violates Newton’s laws - action without reaction. In my book it’s a much lesser offsense than violating causality. (There’s no way to get FTL without violating causality) The ship in **The Songs of Distant Earth** had a quantum drive - getting energy from vacuum. So that’s a violation of the laws of thermodynamics but I think it used propellant, obeying Newton’s laws. **Ender’s Game** and its sequels had slower-than-light interstella travel, but it had FTL communications so I guess that doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/38 "2002-03-27T02:58:01Z")
Here’s some that I’ve never read, but they certainly fit the bill of what you’re looking for:[ul]_Non-Stop_ _Captive Universe A Gift From Earth The Mote in God’s Eye The Jupiter Theft The Road to the Stars_(not fiction, but a discussion of how exo-solar colonization without FTL could be done) [/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/39 "2002-03-27T03:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*Here’s some that I’ve never read, but they certainly fit the bill of what you’re looking for:[ul]_Non-Stop_ > _Captive Universe > A Gift From Earth > The Mote in God’s Eye > The Jupiter Theft > The Road to the Stars_(not fiction, but a discussion of how exo-solar colonization without FTL could be done) > [/ul] \*\* I’ve read The Mote in God’s Eye (as well as the sequel, The Gripping Hand and another book set in the same universe, King David’s Spaceship) and they don’t qualify. Their ships don’t travel faster than light on their own, but they utilize “jump points” that transport them instantly to another star system. Sort of the reverse of the Ender’s Game universe, in that they didn’t have FTL communication and had to rely on physical couriers on ships. There was a few aliens that travelled from one star to another using a solar sail, but most of the travel used these FTL jump points. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/40 "2002-03-27T03:12:46Z")
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