# sci-fi without faster-than-light? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 26, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212 "2002-03-26T18:30:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![easy\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@easy\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/easy_e)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/41 "2002-03-27T04:49:13Z")
[spoiler alert] By _Xenocide_, they solved the FTL travel problem, thanks to Jane ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/42 "2002-03-27T04:59:07Z")
Piers Anthony’s five-volume _Bio of a Space Tyrant_ has nary a warp gate, just a lot of goofy politics and explicit sex. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/43 "2002-03-27T06:42:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*A lot of Robert Heinlein’s early books deal with a non-FTL universe. I don’t think that he did any that were exo-solar, but they’re all pretty accurate as far as the “hard” science goes (i.e. drive systems, space suits, etc.). You should read his _ **The Moon is a Harsh Mistress** _, _ **Space Cadet** _, _ **The Rolling Stones** _, or _ **The Man Who Sold the Moon** _ if you want good SF that doesn’t have any FTL. \*\* I t hink that you’re forgetting Heinlein’s book _Universe_. I really don’t want to go into more detail, as most of what I could say would be spoilers, but again, Heinlein does the First Story Of Its Kind In SF. I’m tired of making my usual rant about the term sci-fi, so let’s just all consider it DONE, all right? ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/44 "2002-03-27T06:50:15Z")
The Sparrow and Children of God, neither contain FTL travel or communications. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/45 "2002-03-27T06:52:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > **Some of Larry Niven’s work – “Wait it Out,” “The Coldest Place,” “Inconstant Moon,” “Becalmed in Hell,” "The Organleggers"** Technically those particular stories fall into a gray area, as they are all set in his Known Space future history (except for ‘Inconstant Moon’, which doesn’t even involve space travel and is set in modern times). In his Known Space stories FTL is possible but was not known to humans until after we had already colonized a few worlds with STL colony ships. All of his stories set in his ‘The State’ future history (‘A World out of Time’, ‘Night on Mispek Moor’, ‘The Integral Trees’, and ‘The Smoke Ring’) are completely without FTL, though, as are ‘Destiny Road’, ‘Legacy of Heorot’, and ‘Beowulf’s Children’. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/46 "2002-03-27T07:28:57Z")
Poul Anderson’s **The Boat of a Million Years** ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/47 "2002-03-27T08:37:59Z")
Offhand, I don’t believe any of Spider Robinson’s works, and there are a ton of them, have any FTL-based stories. He does rather play around with time travel, though. And there are reams of stories that go forward and back rather than out for their excitement. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/48 "2002-03-27T11:03:00Z")
**Yersinia Pestis** , I remember the Zelazny story you’re thinking about - I don’t remember the name, but it’s in the short story collection _The Doors of his Face, the Lamps of his Mouth_. Recently, Alastair Reynolds’ novels (_Revelation Space_ and _Chasm City_) are set in a future universe with no FTL (interstellar ships, because they travel at relativistic speeds, are referred to as “lighthuggers”). I think the same is true for Linda Nagata’s _Deception Well_ and _Vast_. (Ursula Le Guin has slower-than-light interstellar ships, but they have FTL communications, so I guess they don’t count.) ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/49 "2002-03-27T12:01:28Z")
A science fiction novel that doesn’t have the level of science we have _now_, let alone FTL travel: _1984_. pan ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/50 "2002-03-27T12:28:49Z")
A lot of Clarke’s stuff has no FTL, but offhand, the only one I can think of by name is _Imperial Earth_. As of the first Rama book, there was no indication that Rama could go FTL. If only he’d stopped there . . . Likewise, cyberpunk usually don’t have FTL, and frequently doesn’t have space travel. Walter Jon Williams’ _Hardwired_ never goes beyond LEO, _Days of Atonement_ never even got that far. While _Voice of the Whirlwind_ has a little FTL (which is deliberately left kind of vague) in the backstory, the story itself stays inside of the solar system. I don’t think George Alec Effinger’s Marid Audron novels ever went higher than a scramjet. Movies, hmm. A bunch of late-80s, early 90s action-SF movies didn’t have FTL, and usually skipped space flight, as well. Terminator, Fortress, (Not that I recommend WATCHING it, of course) The Running Man, Total Recall, like that. Near-future is fairly common in manga and anime, and often doesn’t have FTL. Ghost in the Shell, Venus Wars, Akira, Patlabor, and Appleseed, (avoid the anime. The manga is terrific, however) just off the top of my head, and only counting movies. – “Somehow, the answers to all these questions is: White guys in jumpsuits.” ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/51 "2002-03-27T12:31:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ura-Maru \* > \*\*A lot of Clarke’s stuff has no FTL, but offhand, the only one I can think of by name is _Imperial Earth_. > > As of the first Rama book, there was no indication that Rama could go FTL. If only he’d stopped there . . . > > Likewise, cyberpunk usually don’t have FTL, and frequently doesn’t have space travel. Walter Jon Williams’ _Hardwired_ never goes beyond LEO, _Days of Atonement_ never even got that far. While _Voice of the Whirlwind_ has a little FTL (which is deliberately left kind of vague) in the backstory, the story itself stays inside of the solar system. > > I don’t think George Alec Effinger’s Marid Audron novels ever went higher than a scramjet. > > Movies, hmm. A bunch of late-80s, early 90s action-SF movies didn’t have FTL, and usually skipped space flight, as well. Terminator, Fortress, (Not that I recommend WATCHING it, of course) The Running Man, Total Recall, like that. > > Near-future is fairly common in manga and anime, and often doesn’t have FTL. Ghost in the Shell, Venus Wars, Akira, Patlabor, and Appleseed, (avoid the anime. The manga is terrific, however) just off the top of my head, and only counting movies. > > – > “Somehow, the answers to all these questions is: White guys in jumpsuits.” \*\* Total Recall had FTL communication, people were having normal conversations with people on Mars, and in the absolutely horrid novelization by Piers Anthony he mentions the technology that allows this. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/52 "2002-03-27T13:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ura-Maru \* > **A lot of Clarke’s stuff has no FTL, but offhand, the only one I can think of by name is _Imperial Earth_. As of the first Rama book, there was no indication that Rama could go FTL. If only he’d stopped there . . .** Did the _Rama_ sequels have FTL? As for other Clarke novels with slower-than-light interstellar travel, _The Songs of Distant Earth_ has already been mentioned. I think the aliens in _Childhood’s End_ had slower-than-light starships too - one of the characters stow away in one and come back hundreds of years later. _Fountains of Paradise_ had a slower-than-light alien probe that made contact with earth. Most stories that deals with interplanetary flights (not interstellar) obey the laws of relativity. Clarke has written a few, like _Earthlight_ and _A Fall of Moondust_ as well as _Imperial Earth_, like you said, but so have many other authors. _Heart of the Comet_ by Gregory Benford and David Brin deserves a mention though - it dealt with long-distance long-term space travel (a 76-year journey on Halley’s Comet). Speaking of Gregory Benford, did his Galactic Center series (_In the Ocean of Night_, etc.) have FTL? It’s been a while since I read it. ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/53 "2002-03-27T14:26:19Z")
_Buddy Holly Is Alive and Well on Ganymede_ by Bradley Denton. Howard Waldrop’s collection of short stories _Night of the Cooters_. ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/54 "2002-03-27T16:01:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Total Recall had FTL communication, people were having normal conversations with people on Mars, and in the absolutely horrid novelization by Piers Anthony he mentions the technology that allows this. Did they? I’d forgotten. I suppose, novelizations aside, it could just be the same movie magic that allows cross-Atlantic calls without the 10 second delay, though. 🙂 If I remember correctly, the later Rama stuff involved crossing a significant part of the galaxy in 20 years, which would have to be FTL. They’re certainly not worth reading again to check out, though. – “That being said, enjoy your crappy sci-fi movie.” ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/55 "2002-03-27T16:11:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ura-Maru \* > **I suppose, novelizations aside, it could just be the same movie magic that allows cross-Atlantic calls without the 10 second delay, though.** Um, that has already been invented. It’s called the undersea cable. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/56 "2002-03-27T16:19:15Z")
Ura-Maru wrote: > [@](#): > > A lot of Clarke’s stuff has no FTL […] As of the first Rama book, there was no indication that Rama could go FTL. If only he’d stopped there . . . Clarke **did** stop there. _Rama II, The Garden of Rama,_ and that fourth Rama book (What was it called? _Rama vs. Godzilla_ or something?) were all written by Gentry Lee. ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/57 "2002-03-27T16:51:36Z")
Sigh. Ok, fine. “it could just be the same movie magic that allow **ED** cross-Atlantic calls without the 10 second delay, **BACK IN THE 60’s** though.” Happy? 🙂 Both Clarke and Lee’s names were on the spine. That makes both of them partially responsible, even if it was obvious that the books were mostly Lee’s. Clarke isn’t that preachy. – “What, so he becomes a Jedi Knight? Why am I watching this?” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/58 "2002-03-27T21:20:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > While there was no mention of FTL travel in the movie, the implication of it was certainly there. “I’ve seen Z-Beams glitter off the Tenhauser Gate.” and the off-world colonies, which, IIRC from the book (_ **Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep** _) are exo-solar. I’d still like to motion for an appeal; you can remove the FTL references from **Blade Runner,** and the movie wouldn’t change a smidge. It’s just background detail, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/59 "2002-03-27T21:42:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Total Recall had FTL communication, people were having normal conversations with people on Mars, and in the absolutely horrid novelization by Piers Anthony he mentions the technology that allows this. Actually, a friend of mine suggested that the lack of a noticeable time-lag in the phone conversations with Mars proved that the entire story was, indeed, a dream. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212/60 "2002-03-27T21:56:02Z")
Wow, two whole days and I still have an example no one’s mentioned: _Diaspora_ by Greg Egan. In the course of that novel Earth launches several slower-than-light colony ships ferrying collections of sentient computer algorithms (the protagonists of the story). Not much communication occurs between the colonies, but occasionally a character will literally transmit himself from one to another via maser beam. Some of Greg Egan’s short fiction takes place in the same universe, for example the story “The Planck Dive”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-without-faster-than-light/100212.md?page=4)