# Sci Fi Women Who Are Excellent Human Beings Regardless Of Whether They Are Excellent Women
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 22, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712 "2011-11-22T03:29:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/1 "2011-11-22T03:29:21Z")
My wife is looking for works of science fiction which feature characters (esp. protagonists) who are female who are excellent human beings in a way that is irrelevant to the question of whether or not they are excellent women.
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### Author:  [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/2 "2011-11-22T03:45:42Z")
Could you define your terms?
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/3 "2011-11-22T03:49:37Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#):
>
> Could you define your terms?
I don’t think it would be helpful to narrow things down further than I have in the OP. We’re interested in whatever people suggest that they think fits the definition given there.
(In other words, we’re much more interested in how the works suggested define these terms (if at all).)
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/4 "2011-11-22T03:52:50Z")
For “excellent human being” you could substitute “human being in an interesting situation” as well. So basically, books where the protagonist is a woman, but it is unimportant in the book whether she is a good specimen of woman or not.
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### Author:  [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/5 "2011-11-22T04:17:53Z")
I’m a little fuzzy on what you’re asking - are you saying in other words you’re looking for sci-fi stories that depict positive; non-stereotypical depictions of women? I.e., women who three-dimensional characters and not just adolescent male fantasy objects?
Offhand, I would suggest reading some of [Octavia Butler](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octavia_E._Butler)’s works. Start with “Parable of the Sower.”
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### Author:  [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/6 "2011-11-22T04:21:25Z")
Cordelia Naismith by Lois McMaster Bujold.
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### Author:  [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/7 "2011-11-22T04:21:36Z")
…are we talking “excellent human being” as in “good role model,” or as in “[Übermensch](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uvGO1SuD6Y)”?
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/8 "2011-11-22T04:34:41Z")
Dr. Susan Calvin
Arkady
Podkayne
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### Author:  [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/9 "2011-11-22T04:50:41Z")
There are two certain ways for a fiction author to engender (heh, heh) criticism from “feminists”: one way is never, ever to use female characters; the other way is to use female characters…
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/10 "2011-11-22T05:29:35Z")
Captain Mazian in Downbelow Station
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### Author:  [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/11 "2011-11-22T06:30:48Z")
The Star Trek novels feature many strong women who rarely exhibit any femininity. You might check some of those out.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/12 "2011-11-22T06:42:00Z")
I enjoyed reading all of Jack McDevitt’s books about Priscilla “Hutch” Hutchins, even tho the science aspect is fairly weak in most (all?) of them.
_The Engines of God
Deepsix
Chindi
Omega
Odyssey
Cauldron_
Of course, there’s always Robert Heinlein’s _Friday_.
I loved the books about the living moon of Jupiter, Gaea, by John Varley: _Titan_ and _Wizard_ and _Demon_. Cirocco Jones rules!
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### Author:  [@ProbablyProcrastinating](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProbablyProcrastinating)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/13 "2011-11-22T07:13:45Z")
Dana Scully, until about season 7. ☹ In fact, any woman written by Morgan and Wong, including Kylen Celina from S:AAB.
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/14 "2011-11-22T07:29:37Z")
> [@Frylock](#):
>
> My wife is looking for works of science fiction which feature characters (esp. protagonists) who are female who are excellent human beings in a way that is irrelevant to the question of whether or not they are excellent women.
Velasquez?
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### Author:  [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/15 "2011-11-22T10:00:58Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> Of course, there’s always Robert Heinlein’s _Friday_.
Except for Friday being a complete idiot, and emotionally dependent on pretty much anyone who comes near her.
Iain Banks does some decent female characters (i.e. emotionally balanced, independent, capable and “good” in terms of the story arc). Djan Seriy Anaplian from Matter, Lady Sharrow from Against A Dark Background.
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/16 "2011-11-22T11:31:51Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#):
>
> I’m a little fuzzy on what you’re asking - are you saying in other words you’re looking for sci-fi stories that depict positive; non-stereotypical depictions of women? I.e., women who three-dimensional characters and not just adolescent male fantasy objects?
That would certainly be responsive to the OP.
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/17 "2011-11-22T11:33:50Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#):
>
> …are we talking “excellent human being” as in “good role model,” or as in “[Übermensch](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uvGO1SuD6Y)”?
Just as in, a good specimen of humanity.
In other words, women who are such that their being a good human doesn’t depend on their being a good woman. (Though see a subsequent post–“excellent human being” isn’t necessarily what she was after.)
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### Author:  [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/18 "2011-11-22T11:46:06Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#):
>
> The Star Trek novels feature many strong women who rarely exhibit any femininity. You might check some of those out.
On the other hand, though, that approach to “excellent person” starts heading into [_another_ problem](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealWomenNeverWearDresses)…
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/19 "2011-11-22T11:53:36Z")
The four women of _Firefly_ are all strong female types and “excellent people” in very different ways. I suppose Inara might possibly fall into the “good woman” category but frankly I’m still somewhat baffled by what the OP considers the difference to be.
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### Author:  [@Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winnipeg)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sci-fi-women-who-are-excellent-human-beings-regardless-of-whether-they-are-excellent-women/603712/20 "2011-11-22T12:01:04Z")
Honor Harrington series by David Webber.
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