# Science behind 'enlightenments' and 'spiritual awakenings' **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 15, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553 "2015-12-15T19:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cardboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Cardboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardboard)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/1 "2015-12-15T19:16:39Z")
What is the science behind ‘enlightenments’ and ‘spiritual awakenings’? For example, some people are depressed then _boom_, they’ve had an ‘enlightenment’ and are whole new people. One famous one is Eckhart Tolle. What brain chemical squirts, or stops squirting, when that happens? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/2 "2015-12-16T00:22:55Z")
In the case of Gautama Buddha or St Catherine of Siena, they (presumably) starved themselves to the point that their brains started to shut down. Presumably, the exact order of shut-down will affect the result that a person has. Some will perceive out of body experiences, others see aliens, yet others feel spiritually enlightened, and most just come out of it with no memory. In the case of a narcotic, like salvia, it binds to the kappa opioid receptor. A healthy, unadulterated receptor is part of moderating your sense of pain, emotion, etc. Triggering it via a targeted narcotic appears to put one in a state of bliss and, based on descriptions, can cause delusions. (At a guess, the delusions/visions are just dreams that are caused by the brain being too preoccupied by the state of bliss, but which come across as amazing due to the state of bliss.) ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/3 "2015-12-16T05:21:39Z")
People are looking into it. Google neurotheology. ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/4 "2015-12-16T20:07:23Z")
What about the experiences reported by Zen devotees? According to T.D. Suzuki, “enlightenment” consists of a flash of realization, followed by understanding and peace. I don’t read of starvation being involved. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/5 "2015-12-16T21:56:41Z")
If you really watch what preachers and cult leaders do it is very simple. They have learned how to elicit very specific reactions to normal things we experience in life and then they hit them with it over and over and over causing a variety of natural hormones to be released. At this high intensity they create a high. Once the subject has attained this state he is very easy to control as he depends on the preacher to bring him back into this state. No different than any drug addiction. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/6 "2015-12-16T22:27:34Z")
> [@Cardboard](#): > > What is the science behind ‘enlightenments’ and ‘spiritual awakenings’? Exaggeration? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/7 "2015-12-17T02:22:18Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > What about the experiences reported by Zen devotees? According to T.D. Suzuki, “enlightenment” consists of a flash of realization, followed by understanding and peace. I don’t read of starvation being involved. I presume that they may just be causing something similar to happen. Hormones are released into the blood based on what our body thinks it should be doing. Based on instinct, this means that we get pleasure shots when we have sex, when we eat high-calorie foods, when we look on our own children, etc. But all of that is moderated by the brain and the brain is a learning apparatus. If you teach a brain that 2+2=5, and you maintain that consistently, then it’s going to crystallize down onto that belief. Or, more to the point, if you have an invisible friend and no one ever tells you, “No, that’s just your imagination.” Then potentially you’ll grow up and continue to believe that some people have “spirit buddies” who are real and meaningful entities. In the modern world, that doesn’t happen. But back in the day, it probably did. We know, from people who suffer hallucinations (due to mental illness) or when they ingest LSD that the brain can be made to experience things that have nothing to do with reality. And, as in my prior example of invisible friends, we know that non-mentally ill people can also see things that aren’t real and be willing to accept that they are. We know that people can override the core chunks of their brain that control the heart, gaining the ability to slow or speed it by conscious decision. And we know that people can raise and lower their own body temperature, via the same method. Since our perception of the world, our happiness, our pain, etc. is controlled by the brain, we can overwrite all of that by conscious choice, by not being corrected early in our life, by mental illness, or by medication. It’s like a computer game with piracy prevention software built into it. Since you have the game locally and you can fiddle with it to your heart’s content, the measures that are in place to prevent you from doing the things that you’re not supposed to do are only effective up to a point. They’re a soft prevention, not a hard one. You can go in there and muck up everything you want. In any one instance of Zen enlightenment, it could be that the guy convinced his body to release some hormone, it could be that he simply had a mental vision of something great, or some other cause. There’s lots of levers available to pull and so it’s probably more likely that each person will have arrived at a slightly different set. When I was a kid, if I concentrated, I could turn a headache into a sensation of pressure and that would let me go to sleep. As said, our perception of reality can be taken under conscious control. The important thing is to know that that’s all you’re accomplishing. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/8 "2015-12-17T04:19:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I presume that they may just be causing something similar to happen. > > Hormones are released into the blood based on what our body thinks it should be doing. Based on instinct, this means that we get pleasure shots when we have sex, when we eat high-calorie foods, when we look on our own children, etc. But all of that is moderated by the brain and the brain is a learning apparatus. If you teach a brain that 2+2=5, and you maintain that consistently, then it’s going to crystallize down onto that belief. Or, more to the point, if you have an invisible friend and no one ever tells you, “No, that’s just your imagination.” Then potentially you’ll grow up and continue to believe that some people have “spirit buddies” who are real and meaningful entities. In the modern world, that doesn’t happen. But back in the day, it probably did. > > We know, from people who suffer hallucinations (due to mental illness) or when they ingest LSD that the brain can be made to experience things that have nothing to do with reality. And, as in my prior example of invisible friends, we know that non-mentally ill people can also see things that aren’t real and be willing to accept that they are. > > We know that people can override the core chunks of their brain that control the heart, gaining the ability to slow or speed it by conscious decision. And we know that people can raise and lower their own body temperature, via the same method. > > Since our perception of the world, our happiness, our pain, etc. is controlled by the brain, we can overwrite all of that by conscious choice, by not being corrected early in our life, by mental illness, or by medication. > > It’s like a computer game with piracy prevention software built into it. Since you have the game locally and you can fiddle with it to your heart’s content, the measures that are in place to prevent you from doing the things that you’re not supposed to do are only effective up to a point. They’re a soft prevention, not a hard one. You can go in there and muck up everything you want. > > In any one instance of Zen enlightenment, it could be that the guy convinced his body to release some hormone, it could be that he simply had a mental vision of something great, or some other cause. There’s lots of levers available to pull and so it’s probably more likely that each person will have arrived at a slightly different set. > > When I was a kid, if I concentrated, I could turn a headache into a sensation of pressure and that would let me go to sleep. As said, our perception of reality can be taken under conscious control. The important thing is to know that that’s all you’re accomplishing. Have you ever ingested LSD, peyote, Psilocybin mushrooms, etc.? Or taken the time to learn to meditate and practice for a number of years? If you had, I believe your answers about an individual’s “enlightenment” experiences would be different. Claiming that its _only_ this hormone or that brain trick is far from the whole story. And what is the “whole story”? Its impossible to explain in words. Its not something that can be taught; it has to be experienced, you’d have to “be there” to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/9 "2015-12-17T17:17:47Z")
Call me a cynic, but ‘science-wise’ it’s **always** nothing more than having a strong, selfish, narcissistic, manipulative, egotistical & inflated self-image. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/10 "2015-12-17T17:31:24Z")
William James wrote an interesting book about this called [The Varieties of Religious Experience](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Varieties_of_Religious_Experience). I read it a long time ago, so I don’t recall a lot of detail. I don’t think he reached any firm conclusions about what the actual mechanism was. I seem to recall that he admitted that there might be brain pathology involved, but that the effects were often permanent and beneficial. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/11 "2015-12-17T20:21:57Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > Claiming that its _only_ this hormone or that brain trick is far from the whole story. Given that you only have the one organ to perceive with and decide with, how would you differentiate between a genuine spiritual experience and your brain misbehaving? The only way to verify anything would be to cross-check with others or, to take the gleaned information, and perform scientific testing on it. We know that, under many of the same conditions that produce spiritual episodes, that people perceive different unrelated things - aliens, seeing music, God, etc. - and that even when they have a spiritual experience that those are different - experiencing a marriage to Jesus, seeing the connections between everything, etc. If spiritual experiences were consistent, we wouldn’t have all of the religions with all of their incompatible descriptions of the universe and other practices, between each other and between themselves over the ages. I’ve spoken to many people who have stated with strong conviction their religious experiences, across a variety of belief systems. None of them were willing to back down and yet none shared any particular consistency with the others in terms of what it actually meant. So either the underlying truth to reality is not consistent (speaking of the spiritual world, not quantum physics) or, when people let their subconscious reveal to them the underlying truths of the world, their subconscious returns whatever it can come up with, based on that person’s cultural experiences, dreams, fears, etc. And, as of yet, no one has been able to turn a religious experience into something that would help us to reveal something about the universe in a testable way. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/12 "2015-12-18T05:04:52Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > And, as of yet, no one has been able to turn a religious experience into something that would help us to reveal something about the universe in a testable way. Actually, I recalled the case of John C. Lilly, who did experience many spiritual revelations that were testable. Specifically, he believed that Dolphins could talk if fed LSD. This is not true. > **[John C. Lilly](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly)** > > John Cunningham Lilly (January 6, 1915 – September 30, 2001) was an American physician, neuroscientist, psychoanalyst, psychonaut, philosopher, writer and inventor. He was a member of a group of counterculture thinkers that included Timothy Leary, Ram Dass, and Werner Erhard, all frequent visitors to the Lilly home. He often stirred controversy, especially among mainstream scientists. > Lilly conducted high-altitude research during World War II and later trained as a psychoanalyst. He gained ren... And as time progressed and he had more visions, he started to believe the following: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Solid State Intelligence Edit > Solid State Intelligence (S.S.I.) is a malevolent entity described by Lilly (see The Scientist). According to Lilly, the network of computation-capable solid state systems (electronics) engineered by humans will eventually develop (or has already developed) into an autonomous bioform. Since the optimal survival conditions for this bioform (low-temperature vacuum) are drastically different from those needed by humans (room temperature aerial atmosphere and adequate water supply), Lilly predicted (or “prophesised”, based on his ketamine-induced visions) a dramatic conflict between the two forms of intelligence.[citation needed] > > Earth Coincidence Control Office (E.C.C.O.) > > In 1974, Lilly’s research using various psychoactive drugs led him to believe in the existence of a certain hierarchical group of cosmic entities, the lowest of which he later dubbed Earth Coincidence Control Office (E.C.C.O.) in an autobiography published jointly with his wife Antonietta (often referred to as Toni). To elaborate, “There exists a Cosmic Coincidence Control Center (CCCC) with a Galactic substation called Galactic Coincidence Control (GCC). Within GCC is the Solar System Control Unit (SSCU), within which is the Earth Coincidence Control Office (ECCO).”[21] This conclusion had been predicted in his past works having stated that, “For the first time I began to consider that God really existed in me and that there is a guiding intelligence in the universe.”[22] > > He also states that there exist nine conditions which should be followed by humans who seek to control coincidences in their own lives. > > You must know/assume/simulate our existence in E.C.C.O. > You must be willing to accept our responsibility for control of your coincidences. > You must exert your best capabilities for your survival programs and your own development as an advancing/advanced member of E.C.C.O.'s earthside corps of controlled coincidence workers. You are expected to use your best intelligence in this service. > You are expected to expect the unexpected every minute, every hour of every day and of every night. > You must be able to maintain conscious/thinking/reasoning no matter what events we arrange to happen to you. Some of these events will seem cataclysmic/catastrophic/overwhelming: remember stay aware, no matter what happens/apparently happens to you. > You are in our training program for life: there is no escape from it. We (not you) control the long-term coincidences; you (not we) control the shorter-term coincidences by your own efforts. > Your major mission on earth is to discover/create that which we do to control the long-term coincidence patterns: you are being trained on Earth to do this job. > When your mission on planet Earth is completed, you will no longer be required to remain/return there. > Remember the motto passed to us (from G.C.C. via S.S.C.U.): “Cosmic Love is absolutely Ruthless and Highly Indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not.” Personally, I would opine that if you think you’ve found a path to spiritual knowledge, through narcotics, you might want to buy a few of Lilly’s books. If it doesn’t quickly dissuade you, then I suppose you’ll have found the end of your path one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/13 "2015-12-18T23:12:42Z")
> **[Neuroscience of religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology)** > > The neuroscience of religion, also known as neurotheology and as spiritual neuroscience, attempts to explain religious experience and behaviour in neuroscientific terms. It is the study of correlations of neural phenomena with subjective experiences of spirituality and hypotheses to explain these phenomena. This contrasts with the psychology of religion which studies mental, rather than neural, states. > Proponents of the neuroscience of religion say there is a neurological and evolutionary bas... > **[God helmet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet)** > > The God helmet is an experimental apparatus originally called the Koren helmet after its inventor Stanley Koren. It was developed by Koren and neuroscientist Michael Persinger to study creativity, religious experience and the effects of subtle stimulation of the temporal lobes. Reports by participants of a "sensed presence" while wearing the God helmet brought public attention and resulted in several TV documentaries. The device has been used in Persinger's research in the field of neurothe Persi... ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-behind-enlightenments-and-spiritual-awakenings/740553/14 "2015-12-19T14:24:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Given that you only have the one organ to perceive with and decide with, how would you differentiate between a genuine spiritual experience and your brain misbehaving? The only way to verify anything would be to cross-check with others or, to take the gleaned information, and perform scientific testing on it. > > We know that, under many of the same conditions that produce spiritual episodes, that people perceive different unrelated things - aliens, seeing music, God, etc. - and that even when they have a spiritual experience that those are different - experiencing a marriage to Jesus, seeing the connections between everything, etc. If spiritual experiences were consistent, we wouldn’t have all of the religions with all of their incompatible descriptions of the universe and other practices, between each other and between themselves over the ages. I’ve spoken to many people who have stated with strong conviction their religious experiences, across a variety of belief systems. None of them were willing to back down and yet none shared any particular consistency with the others in terms of what it actually meant. > > So either the underlying truth to reality is not consistent (speaking of the spiritual world, not quantum physics) or, when people let their subconscious reveal to them the underlying truths of the world, their subconscious returns whatever it can come up with, based on that person’s cultural experiences, dreams, fears, etc. > > And, as of yet, no one has been able to turn a religious experience into something that would help us to reveal something about the universe in a testable way. Sorry, but your discourse reminded me of Ebeneezer Scrooge’s dialog with the ghost of Jacob Marley: “you might be a bit of undigested mustard, or a fragment of underdone potato…there is more of gravy than grave about you”! It is true, one cannot prove the origin of one’s experiences.