# Science Diet dog food=Cancer in a Bag? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013 "2003-10-28T13:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/1 "2003-10-28T13:46:35Z")
An old-coworker of mine, Mary, and I were talking about pet food a couple years ago and she mentioned that her vet told her that they called Science Diet “cancer in a bag”. She elaborated and said that the vet told her 9 times out of time if a dog came in and had cancer, they were feeding the pooch Science Diet. I haven’t been able to find any facts to corroborate or deny the facts. Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/2 "2003-10-28T14:03:52Z")
Perhaps when dogs show signs of illness, their owners start looking for better quality dog food. The same for older dogs, who are also more likely to have cancer. Correlation does not imply causation. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/3 "2003-10-28T14:08:31Z")
Why do many vets recommend and sell Science Diet then? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/4 "2003-10-28T14:48:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by In Conceivable \* > \*\*Why do many vets recommend and sell Science Diet then? \*\* Well, take this with a grain of salt (in other words, I ain’t vouching for any accuracy and maybe someone with better knowledge can dismiss/agree with this too). [Quote:] ([http://www.rateitall.com/showitemria.aspx?itemid=6594AF3B-02E4-47EB-AF2B-DC1D96404F42](http://www.rateitall.com/showitemria.aspx?itemid=6594AF3B-02E4-47EB-AF2B-DC1D96404F42)) > [@](#): > > Foodman , on 1/7/2003 9:57:00 PM, said: > Science Diet is a good food, however it is well over-priced. Also, some question the preservatives used, which is why they have come out with the “All-Natural” version which is even pricier. Vets get kickbacks from Science-Diet, which is why they recommend it often. However, Science-Diet also has a perscription formula that only vets can recommend. If this is recommended, stick to it, otherwise there is higher quality out there for less money. but more telling would be this from the same website: > [@](#): > > 1. frontman , on 9/1/2003 7:31:00 PM, said: > > Science Diet is garbage. It is a huge marketing scam. Hill’s brainwashes young vet students and pushes their products. Most vets know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about pet nutrition so don’t even ask them. If you do they will most likely mindlessly blurt out names like Science Diet, Eukanuba, Iams etc. Euk & Iams are decent foods but not great. Science Diet uses only the CHEAPEST ingredients possible. Look at the list-corn/soy meal (low digestibility/allergen) chicken by-products, proven carcinogens BHT/BHA, and “animal fat” which is rendered from unkown animals that include euthanized pets, diseased/dying animals, roadkill, tumors etc. Absolutely horrible. Stick with a high quality food like Innova, Cal Natural, Healthwise, Canidae, Natural Balance, Wellness, or even Chicken Soup. > > 1. Schutzhund Trainer , on 2/19/2003 1:55:00 AM, said: > > Watch out for cancer. The preservatives and other ingredients are not what they should be. Very surprised that Hills has not been more careful given the fact their specialty prescription foods (K/D, I/D etc are used by so many vets. [And another web forum “corroborates” the theory of kickbacks](http://www.auspet.com/pet/dog_breed_vet_care/000905.html) > [@](#): > > RottyMommy > > ## Moderator Posts: 343 From:Harrisburg,PA USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 08-01-2003 12:29 AM > > You are right you do not want a food that is based on corn. Nor meat by priducts. As far as vets not getting kickbacks then why it is that they only carry science diet. They do get kickbacks for selling SD they dont from other foods. Why do you think they dont carry Nutro, Solid Gold, Innova, Wellness which are much better than solid gold. They dont carry it cuz they dont get a kickback for it. My vet told me flat out he gets a kickback from SD and thats why they carry it. As I said the only reason why SD is so popular is cuz you see it in every vets office so you think it is a good food. Just like Iams/ Eukanuba! They advertised there food so much and people thought it was so great. Now it is coming out that they put the wrong amount of food necessary that you are supposed to feed your dog which resulted in dogs getting sick and some dying. And the fact that they inhumanely tested animals in barbaric ways. So, maybe it’s the BHT/BHA that’s included in the food? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/5 "2003-10-28T15:15:29Z")
What is your evidence again that animals that eat Science Diet get cancer more frequently? So far you are looking to find explanations for an hypothesis with no evidence to support it. While people may have reason to be against SD and the vets that push it based on the price, there’s nothing you’ve presented that links the dog food with causing cancer. Kickbacks do not cause cancer. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/6 "2003-10-28T15:24:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Telemark \* > \*\*What is your evidence again that animals that eat Science Diet get cancer more frequently? So far you are looking to find explanations for an hypothesis with no evidence to support it. While people may have reason to be against SD and the vets that push it based on the price, there’s nothing you’ve presented that links the dog food with causing cancer. > > Kickbacks do not cause cancer. \*\* I have NO evidence. If I had evidence I wouldn’t have posted this thread. What I have is rumors, speculation, and second hand knowledge. You’re right, kickbacks don’t cause cancer, I never said they did, one person asked why vets would sell the food if it did and I posted the reasons that OTHER people thought why. I don’t have a dog in this fight, I don’t even have a dog. Just a curiousity as to what the truth is. ---
**Author:** ![Miabella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@Miabella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miabella)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/7 "2003-10-28T16:21:29Z")
I don’t believe there is any evidence that Science Diet causes cancer. I have certainly never seen any peer reviewed studies that would indicate such. However, it is true that Science Diet isn’t a very good food, it uses cheap ingredients and the purchase price is mostly due to how much Hills spends on advertising. If you do your research, you will find that you can buy kibbles with much higher quality ingredients for the same price or less from smaller companies that don’t spend so much on advertising. As for vets recommending it, most veterinary schools do not spend much time on canine nutrition and teaching students what to look for on the label of a dog food bag. Most of the canine nutrition literature is provided to vet schools for free by companies like Hills and Iams, so you can guess the bias. Also, vet clinics do get kickbacks from selling these foods. ---
**Author:** ![Miabella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@Miabella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miabella)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/8 "2003-10-28T16:41:59Z")
Oops, came back to say that Science Diet doesn’t use BHA/BHT as a preservative in their food now, they use the natural preservatives of mixed tocopherols and citric acid. However, I believe they used to use BHA/BHT for many years, and I guess there are studies showing BHT causing cancer in lab animals in large doses. But I still wouldn’t feed it to my dogs. ---
**Author:** ![NoGoodNamesLeft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NoGoodNamesLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoGoodNamesLeft)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/9 "2003-10-28T16:57:10Z")
[Here’s](http://www.hillspet.com/products/product_details.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302024495&bmUID=1067360653831&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441760617) what Hill’s has to say about their content. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/10 "2003-10-28T17:17:58Z")
Well, our cats and our dog all eat Science Diet. And our cats are much healthier than they were before-especially Noel. She has chronic problems with her teeth and gums, but they’ve been MUCH better since we switched her. Her coat is extremely thick and soft as well. ---
**Author:** ![Catjuggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Catjuggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catjuggler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/11 "2003-10-28T20:02:15Z")
I have never received a kickback in more than 12 years of practice and I have never heard of a veterinarian receiving kick backs. I sell Hills and Eukanuba because I believe that they are good foods. Do I have a degree in animal nutrition? No, but I do have an education that includes physiology and nutrition so I think that qualifies me to make recommendations to my clients. If anyone can tell me how to get a kick back, please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Miabella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@Miabella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miabella)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/12 "2003-10-28T20:23:25Z")
From the [Wall Street Journal](http://www.simplyschnauzer.net/hills.html): > [@](#): > > Borrowing a page from the pharmaceuticals companies, which routinely woo doctors to prescribe their drugs, Hill’s has spent a generation cultivating its professional following. It spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a year funding university research and nutrition courses at every one of the 27 U.S. veterinary colleges. Once in practice, vets who sell Science Diet and other premium foods directly from their offices pocket profits of as much as 40%. . My SIL and friend from college who are both vets tell me this is true. You disagree **Catjuggler**? ---
**Author:** ![Catjuggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Catjuggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catjuggler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/13 "2003-10-28T20:52:06Z")
I wouldn’t disagree that I make a profit from selling dog and cat food. That’s what a business does. Market forces certainly keep me from marking things up 40%. No matter how much I recommended a food no one would pay that much. As for funding research at Veterinary Schools, I think that this is a good thing. The foods that these companies sell are research based. I may not be a nutritionist, but the people doing the research are. No company ever paid for a course at my school. What I sell to my clients is what I feed to my pets. ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/14 "2003-10-28T21:13:12Z")
Well, you’re feeding them crap. ---
**Author:** ![Catjuggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Catjuggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catjuggler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/15 "2003-10-28T21:23:44Z")
That’s your opinion. I have research to back up my position, not just anecdotes. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/16 "2003-10-28T21:26:39Z")
In your opinion, Ivar. 😉 Anyway…There’s a difference between getting a kickback from a company, which would amount to a bribe for selling their food, and making an honest profit on the food. Catjuggler is saying s/he doesn’t get kickbacks from the manufacturer, just that s/he makes a profit. There’s no harm in that. If the theory is that the preservatives in Science Diet cause cancer, then other dog foods with preservatives should cause cancer, too. There are apparently a number of people out there who believe that dry dog food kibble, with its necessary preservatives, causes cancer. However, it sounds to me like this is more an offshoot of the whole “all natural/no preservatives” movement, rather than fingering dog food as carcinogenic in particular. > **[Managed IT Support: IT Services Utah, California, Washington | Executech](https://www.executech.com/)** > > Get enterprise-quality business IT services with flexible, no-contract options. We provide on-site IT support for your business from our team of experts, creating efficient and effortless solutions to all of your IT needs. Get your free assessment... ---
**Author:** ![Miabella](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@Miabella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miabella)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/17 "2003-10-28T21:27:59Z")
I have no problem with the fact that a vet’s office is a business. In fact, I think that compared to the price of comparable procedures for humans, quality veterinary care is a bargain. I have no problem with vets making a profit, they have to eat, too. But I have physically seen the vet school nutrition education materials with the pet food company logos on them. And I have read the ingredients on the back of the bag. I am an educated person with good analytical and research skills, and it’s clear to me that there are much better foods out there. If you really believe that corn and by-products are better than human grade meats and less commonly allergenic grains, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Catjuggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Catjuggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catjuggler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/18 "2003-10-28T21:40:04Z")
I agree-to disagree that is. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/19 "2003-10-28T22:15:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Catjuggler \* > No company ever paid for a course at my school. Just wondering - how would you know that? I don’t know which of my classes at MIT got grants from Microsoft, but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that some of them did. Microsoft certainly is paying for the bulk of the new fancy CS building. Which vet school did you attend? ---
**Author:** ![Catjuggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Catjuggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catjuggler)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013/20 "2003-10-28T22:22:49Z")
I attended Iowa State University. To the best of my knowledge my tuition and the tax payers of the state of Iowa paid for my classes. I am not aware of any companies giving grants, but I may be mistaken. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-diet-dog-food-cancer-in-a-bag/210013.md?page=2)