# Science fiction and vacuum tubes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 8, 2022, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654 "2022-03-08T04:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/81 "2022-03-09T05:32:23Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’d put it that writers always hope that their work will live on. But no one, no matter how talented, can write for people in the future. Is it something worth thinking about? Or should you just ignore possible future readers? Let’s say you’re writing a story in which a character mentions the President. Should you have the character say President Biden? If you do then somebody reading your story ten years from now is going to think _“Oh, this is an old story.”_ So why not write President Smith? Or just refer to the President and not mention a name? Or do you tell yourself, _“Joe Biden is President in 2022 and I’m writing this story to be read in 2022. Why should I care about people who might read it in 2032?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/82 "2022-03-09T05:35:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Authors write to the audience that will buy their books now, not some hypothetical audience that may exist in the future. All book buyers exist in the future. Some exist a few months in the future and some exist decades in the future. Nobody except the author reads the book as it is being written. Why would an author want to sell their book to some future buyers but not to others? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/83 "2022-03-09T11:47:57Z")
Hence a science fiction story in which FTL is used to allow aged boomers to watch old episodes of Howdy Doody by taking them out past where the radio waves have reached. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/84 "2022-03-09T12:39:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > > Authors write to the audience that will buy their books now, not some hypothetical audience that may exist in the future. > > . . . > Why would an author want to sell their book to some future buyers but not to others? To pay the bills due next month. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/85 "2022-03-09T12:49:34Z")
Both Asimov and Niven wrote stories that were overtaken by scientific discoveries shortly after they were written. Both felt a bit bad about the situation - if I recall correctly Niven offered to do a rewrite. But the editors didn’t care, which is why Asimov’s story predicting that Everest would never be climbed appeared in a magazine shortly after it had been climbed. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/86 "2022-03-09T13:00:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I still say that slide rules should be taught in high school. No, they’re not useful as a tool for their own sake, any more, not compared with digital electronics… But they’re wonderful for pedagogy. What better way to illustrate the properties of logarithms? And they also enforce a strict understanding of measurement and calculation error: You can’t report an answer to 16 decimal places (two of which are significant) on a slide rule. I agree. Slide rules give you a great way to visualize multiplication, and logarithms. And they give you an immediate way to visualize and justify the Benford probabilities. I’ve got a stack of slide rules that I’ve bought at yard sales over the years. And, unlike those of you who were inspired by Heinlein stories to learn the slide rule, I was originally inspired by Robert Graves’ character in the Poverty Row classic **Killers from Space**. Graves, lying in his hospital bed after escaping from the jump-suited aliens with ping pong ball eyes, asks for a slide rule, which he then uses to figure how how much energy the aliens must be stealing from the energy grid to keep their systems confined, and all he’d have to do is shut down the generators on the grid to disable their systems and cause a lethal nuclear explosion (which, when it happens, rattles the venetian blinds). Hey, at least it’s more believable than teenagers making a hydrogen bomb out of their plastic belts (as in **The Cape Canaveral Monsters** ) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/87 "2022-03-09T13:12:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So why not write President Smith? Or just refer to the President and not mention a name? > > Or do you tell yourself, _“Joe Biden is President in 2022 and I’m writing this story to be read in 2022. Why should I care about people who might read it in 2032?”_ _President?_ How backwards, didn’t they know that the US would be run by a triumvirate within a decade? Someone brought up 2001 earlier in the thread. One of the plot points of 2010 was the brewing cold war between the US and the Soviet Union. Is Arthur C. Clarke guilty of not being forward thinking enough? The Star Trek universe references events that took place in the 90’s that never actually happened, does that invalidate the franchise? In 40 years, we are supposed to have warp drives, will the people of 2063 look back at Gene Roddenberry as a fool for his predictions? Science fiction is pretty much always going to be dated by the time that the events of the story take place. If authors worried about that, they’d never set pen to paper. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why would an author want to sell their book to some future buyers but not to others? Because the present is where you sell the book and make money. And it is entirely and only _your_ assertion that a wrong prediction in a book means that a book no longer has any value to future readers. People still buy and read books by Jules Verne, who got _everything_ wrong. Does the fact that the Earth is not hollow mean that no one can enjoy _Journey to the Center of the Earth_? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/88 "2022-03-09T13:14:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I was originally inspired by Robert Graves’ character in the Poverty Row classic **Killers from Space**. Wow, _that_ would’ve been a hell of a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/89 "2022-03-09T13:16:18Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > These developments never quite seem to go anywhere, but that’s likely more to do with the dominance of silicon MOSFETs than the underlying practicality of “vacuum-channel transistors”. Probably because they are bridging technologies that answer an immediate problem. The major innovation that made the semiconductor revolution possible was the planar process. In the 50s and 60s junction transistors were analogues of vacuum tubes. I still have a pentode transistor someplace. Junction transistors were slow. And exotic processes, like surface barrier, were dead end. The planar process made high volume manufacture practical. It also made field effect devices practical allowing the technology to evolve. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/90 "2022-03-09T13:23:50Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > He died a bitter boomer (in “okay, boomer” terms if not in years) in a world that was a distopian nightmare to him. He was born in 1920, so he wasn’t a member of the Baby Boom generation (born from 1946 to 1964), nor was he a member of the Silent Generation (born from 1928 to 1945). He was a member of the Greatest Generation (born from 1901 to 1927). I think it would be a good idea to consistently use these terms: > **[Generation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation)** > > A generation refers to all of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively. It can also be described as, "the average period, generally considered to be about 20–⁠30 years, during which children are born and grow up, become adults, and begin to have children." In kinship terminology, it is a structural term designating the parent-child relationship. It is known as biogenesis, reproduction, or procreation in the biological sciences. > Generation is also often used syno... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/91 "2022-03-09T14:13:07Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Wow, _that_ would’ve been a hell of a thing. Yeah. He starred in it right after writing _I, Claudius_. It annoyed the other actors. _Peter_ Graves. When he still had dark hair, and looked like James Arness. Probably envied his playing **The Thing.** ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/92 "2022-03-09T14:46:26Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > He was born in 1920, so he wasn’t a member of the Baby Boom generation (born from 1946 to 1964), nor was he a member of the Silent Generation (born from 1928 to 1945). He was a member of the Greatest Generation (born from 1901 to 1927). I think it would be a good idea to consistently use these terms: Do you really not _understand_ the sentence of mine that you quoted? Did you not _see_ that I explicitly said that he isn’t a boomer in years? Or did you just not understand that I was calling him an “[okay boomer](https://www.vox.com/2019/11/19/20963757/what-is-ok-boomer-meme-about-meaning-gen-z-millennials)”? Or did you understand both and not be able to resist being condescendingly pedantic anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/93 "2022-03-09T15:02:15Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Both Asimov and Niven wrote stories that were overtaken by scientific discoveries shortly after they were written. Both felt a bit bad about the situation - if I recall correctly Niven offered to do a rewrite. But the editors didn’t care, which is why Asimov’s story predicting that Everest would never be climbed appeared in a magazine shortly after it had been climbed. Charles Stross complains quite a bit on his blog about real-world situations obsoleting elements of books that he is in the middle of writing. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/94 "2022-03-09T15:05:51Z")
Is that an existing story, or an idea for one? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/95 "2022-03-09T15:12:32Z")
A real one: “What Time is It?” by Jack Haldeman II, [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?53469](http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?53469) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/96 "2022-03-09T15:25:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > > Wow, _that_ would’ve been a hell of a thing. > > Yeah. He starred in it right after writing _I, Claudius_ . It annoyed the other actors. > > _Peter_ Graves. When he still had dark hair, and looked like James Arness. Probably envied his playing **The Thing.** Now I’m imagining the Killers From Space skulking around the Julio-Claudian dynasty. Probably wouldn’t have made that much difference, seeing as how they already had plenty of Killers From Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/97 "2022-03-09T15:29:19Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > _President?_ How backwards, didn’t they know that the US would be run by a triumvirate within a decade? > > Someone brought up 2001 earlier in the thread. One of the plot points of 2010 was the brewing cold war between the US and the Soviet Union. Is Arthur C. Clarke guilty of not being forward thinking enough? Are you really having a hard time grasping the topic at hand or are you just threadshitting? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/98 "2022-03-09T15:34:36Z")
I _thought_ that sounded a bit familiar. Back in the 80’s I read pretty much anything with Asimov’s name on it, including and especially anthologies of other authors. Wonder if that book is still in my parent’s basement somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/99 "2022-03-09T15:38:40Z")
I don’t think that it is _I_ that is having difficulty with this topic, you are the one insisting that any dated references ruin a story, contrary to not only continued sales of stories with dated references and the explanations given by everyone in this thread as to why your thesis is incorrect. But, on that note, I can see that there is no further point to this discussion, have yourself an excellent day. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654/100 "2022-03-09T16:32:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > you are the one insisting that any dated references ruin a story I did not say this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-and-vacuum-tubes/960654.md?page=6)