Science Fiction Fans: Am I being Wooshed? I mean, this IS a gag, right?

What relevance? None whatsoever. As you pointed out, if it had been an issue with a publisher or book marketer, or royalties, or anything directly involved with writing, it would have been something for the organization to consider. But condemning the war was not part of our mission.

Sam was probably used to European writers’ organizations, which often take political stands. He didn’t understand SFWA was not that way; plus, as a non-profit, we’re supposed to stay away from political issues.

This doesn’t mean there weren’t people who agreed with Sam’s opinion on the war. However, they need to make their opinion known as individuals, not as the organization.

**

I wasn’t aware that European writers orginaziations did that!

My other thought on this was "Y’know…if they did pass such a resolution, just about Jim Baen’s entire stable of authors (who I assume are members) will go up in flames! :wink:

Musicjunkie: I appreciate your response! However, I’m not sure I’m convinced though…part of the problem is that Wells never gave the Martians a motive. We don’t know why they were here: coulda been to invade for living space, they may have wanted our women (MARS NEEDS WOMEN! :wink: ) or maybe they were teenage Martians playing a giant prank that got out of hand.

To me, when Wells was political he was about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face: Morlocks and Eloi as a metaphor for class structure is incredibly unsubtle (though wonderfully written).

In Footfall the aliens are given a motive and it’s clearly imperialistic. Ditto Heinlein’s Puppet Masters, etc.

But War of the Worlds? I’m just not convinced yet (though you’ve given me lots of food for thought). If Steve Wright wanders back into the thread, I’d be fascinated to see his take on this: he knows more about Wells than anyone I know.

The following is a hijack, but it’s my thread, I’ll hijack it if I want to!

I need to read some Verne, but I keep getting crappy translations. Can anyone recmmend a good set of well-translated Verne?

Fenris

RealityChuck:

If Lundwall is Swedish, why was he a member of SFWA in the first place?

Okay, I understand. I just don’t get what you think is so subtle about it. If not about Imperialism waht is it about that would fit Wells’ political beliefs. Then again I know I’m offering no factual reference of Wells saying “Yeah, I wanted to do an Imperialism parable at the time so I wrote War of the Worlds.”.

It’s just a bit frustrating to have something so obvious to you not being seen by other smart people. Not that I’mpositive I’m right it’s more like I really, really think I’m right.

I think it helps if you forget India and think about other cases of Imperialism run rampant.

I’ll admit I obviously had forgotten all of this. But I’m very leary of any “utopia” that includes “psychological readjustment” in the plan. It’s kind of stacking the deck. After all, Winston Smith thought everything was perfect in Oceania by the last page.

Well, you also have the option to take as much stuff as you want and leave. It’s not like he was being forced to submit (and in the end, remember, he did neither: he “cured” himself).

Plus, I’d suspect Heinlein agreed with you. Note that this “utopia” only lasted about 50 years, and crumbled at the first challenge it had (the existence of long-lifers) without even a word of dissent.

Fenris

I highly recommend Walter James Miller’s two volumes The Annotated Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea and The Annotated From the Earth to the Moon. Miller’s annotations are great, and he goes to great lengths to point out the deficiencies and prejudices of Verne’s earlier translators, especially Mercier Lewis/Louis Mercier. Both books are out of print, so you’ll have to search used book resources to find them. In addition, Miller himself later did a translation of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea.

A Brand new translation of The Mysterious Island just came out last year (I forget the translator – it was published by a University press). The forward claims it’s the first new and complete translation in decades.

Most Verne books published since about 1960 have been new translations, and avoid the pitfalls of the earlier ones. (Except, of course, for obvious reprints, like the Dover edition of From the Earth to the Moon, or the Ace paperback versions, which say on the cover that they’re the old “Fitzroy” editions.) Even Miller acknowledges that the Bantam paperback translation circa 1969 of From the Earth to the Moon (the one I read as a kid, and still have) was pretty accurate.

We have quite a few non-American members (e.g, the noted Sri Lankan author A. C. Clarke ;)). SFWA is for writers published in America, even if they live elsewhere. Lundwall’s 2018 A.D. was published by DAW Books.

I’m not entirely convinced of my own credentials as any sort of Wells expert (not by a long chalk), but I’ll have a stab at the War of the Worlds thing … Wells was a social idealist, and a modernist, pretty much all his life, though his views developed and changed over time. His thinking is fairly evident even in early works like The Time Machine (basically, the whole Eloi/Morlocks thing is about class distinctions … the portrayal of the lower classes becoming literally submerged, hidden from view in subterranean compounds, crops up in other stories too, for example “A Story of the Days to Come” and The Last War).

It’s pretty reasonable to suggest, then, that The War of the Worlds is an allegory on imperialism - not necessarily British imperialism, though; I think by 1898 Wells was at least well on the way to regarding imperialism as a bad thing in itself, and the methods of its practice as pretty much unimportant. Certainly, by 1906 (In the Days of the Comet), he’s criticising prevailing social systems without reference to nationalities.

So … War of the Worlds … an alien force lands on Earth, its superior (and largely incomprehensible) technology allows it to brush aside any opposition*, as it sets about exploiting our resources without consideration of customs or even basic morality … yes, the Martians are imperialists, at their most basic and repugnant. (And Wells pulls no punches in making them repugnant; they’re physically repulsive, they make no attempt to negotiate, they use poison gas, they’re vampiric, for Heaven’s sake … ) The narrator’s bafflement at the Martian technology is intended to reflect the savage’s bafflement in the face of the mechanisms of European civilization.

What I guess is unusual about War of the Worlds is the negative view on technology … as a modernist, Wells tended to believe that technical progress inevitably implied social progress as well (once the old order could be persuaded to let go and put the technicians in charge, that is). It’s unusual for the technically superior types to be the villains in a Wells story - unusual, but not unheard of; Griffin (The Invisible Man) and Moreau are both streets ahead in scientific terms, but morally reprehensible characters, and there are other examples. But I think that War of the Worlds is not only an allegory, but a cautionary tale, about imperialism - after all, the Martians lose; they fail to foresee the effects of Earthly biology (thinking about it … all that stuff about the red fungus, in addition to making for some striking visual images, is also a neat piece of foreshadowing; the Martians are established as being sloppy about quarantine procedures.) Viewed in that light, it’s as much a story about misapplied power as anything else - and that is very much a standard Wellsian theme (the quintessential expression of which may be found in “The Man Who Could Work Miracles”)

So … if Lundwall’s saying War of the Worlds is an anti-imperialism fable, he’s got a point. If he’s saying it’s specifically an anti-British imperialism fable, he’s probably wrong. Wells knew perfectly well how the British operated in India, and if he’d wanted to write a book about that, he would have done so.

*There’s also a sort of “boy’s toys” feel about War of the Worlds which I find interesting. You can almost see the action figures range - Martian spaceship! Three-legged war machine! Five-legged construction machine! Collect the set! Did you know that Wells produced two books (Floor Games and Little Wars) which may be the earliest known sets of rules for miniature figures wargaming? It’s a side of his personality which comes out in War of the Worlds rather clearly.

There is a special sort of sublime futility in the spectacle of a group of people arguing over the meaning of an interpretation of a paraphrase of a quotation from a book none of them have ever read.

Lundwell, whatever his faults, has to be treated like a critic. He develops a chapter-long argument - “Women, Robots, and Other Peculiarities” - about the treatment of the “other” in sf. All of it reinforces the various parts so taking a piece out loses impact. But just for the record, here are the passages relevant to Wells.

Regarding the Midgard/Middle Earth thing:

The Swedish word Midgard (or actually Midgård) can best be translated as Middle Earth. When Åke Ohlmark translated the LotR trilogy to Swedish, he used the word Midgård for Middle Earth, despite the slightly confusing connotations to Norse mythology (Just one of the bad ideas he had, it’s a really awful translation.)

My guess would be that Sam Lundwall wrote the book in Swedish, and used the word Midgård. The person who translated it to English just assumed that it was a term borrowed from Norse mythology and used the normal English spelling of it, Midgard.

Thanks for the quote, Exapno … but I’m afraid that Englishmen, however sensitive, intelligent, and socialistically inclined, did not think in terms of post-colonial guilt in 1898. Lundwall is projecting a (comparatively) modern mind-set onto a late Victorian writer here - Wells was, in his way, a patriot, and I don’t believe for a moment he felt guilty about the expansion of Western cultural mores. In fact, as a utopian visionary with a dream of an all-encompassing World State, his problem with British imperialism was more likely that it didn’t suppress native cultures quickly and efficiently enough …

As Malacandra and MusicJunkie have pointed out, the British annexation of India wasn’t in the least like the Martian invasion. And Wells was a broadly educated man, he was a student and a professional teacher before he became a full-time writer in 1893 - if he’d wanted to write an allegory of Britain in India, then he’d have written one, and it wouldn’t look like War of the Worlds

Here’s a direct quote from War of the Worlds. Hopefully, it’s not long enough to perturb the mods.
"And before we judge of them too harshly we must remem-
ber what ruthless and utter destruction our own species has
wrought, not only upon animals, such as the vanished bison
and the dodo, but upon its inferior races. The Tasmanians,
in spite of their human likeness, were entirely swept out of
existence in a war of extermination waged by European immi-
grants, in the space of fifty years. Are we such apostles of
mercy as to complain if the Martians warred in the same
spirit?

Seems like he’s discussing something a little broader than Imperialism, but I guess you argue the case. Seems to me Lundwell is over-stating his case and applying modern mores and judgements to a work from a previous time. (Love that Guttenberg project!)

Err, “you could argue the case.” Damn, Damn, Damn.

I just finished reading this copy of “The Mysterious Island” It was very good. Worthy of it’s own thread. I was glad that I never read the original as a kid, this book was better than the movie and I loved the movie.

I can’t wait to read “Paris in the Twentyth Century” that I got for my birthday.

This is the edition of **The Mysterious Island ** I referred to above:

http://btobsearch.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2IVVCKKS1K&btob=Y&isbn=0679642366&itm=15

I haven’t read it yet, nr the edition BMalion recommends

I am so very,very, very sorry for you.

:o Mea Culpa! :o CalMeacham actually linked to the book I raved about. Please transfer all my raving from my previous post to this one.

who would have known that there’d be all these Verne translations suddenly?