# Science Fiction Short Story ID Help **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 4, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520 "2019-07-04T15:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/1 "2019-07-04T15:35:13Z")
My Google is failing me, or perhaps I invented this memory long ago, or maybe I slipped into an alternate universe sometime in the last 45 years or so and the story i’m looking for doesn’t exist here, but I’m at a loss. The story would probably date from the New Wave period of late sixties to mid seventies. The old phrase from many treaties with the Native American tribes is referenced, maybe even in the title, “as long as grass grows or water runs.” The basic idea is that the last treaty is about to be broken because some valuable resource has been found under Native land, and at the end the sun stops shining, the plants dry up and die, and the rivers stop flowing. Does this sound familiar to anybody? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/2 "2019-07-04T15:39:21Z")
I know I’ve read it. I think it was by R. A. Lafferty, but I can’t recall the name of it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/3 "2019-07-04T18:24:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I know I’ve read it. > > I think it was by R. A. Lafferty, but I can’t recall the name of it. The Lafferty you are thinking about might be [this](https://www.ralafferty.org/works/stories/narrow-valley/) one. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/4 "2019-07-04T18:26:56Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The Lafferty you are thinking about might be [this](https://www.ralafferty.org/works/stories/narrow-valley/) one. From this description [Short story – “Narrow Valley” by R. A. Lafferty](https://www.martynvallery.com/short-story-narrow-valley-by-r-a-lafferty/) it seems like it’s not the one the OP is looking for ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/5 "2019-07-04T18:49:33Z")
Damnit guys…thats gonna drive me crazy. (Breaks out all his end of the world anthology books…again.) ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/6 "2019-07-04T20:53:37Z")
I remember reading it, but unfortunately not the name. In a similar vein, does anyone remember “The Nine Billion Names of God”? ---
**Author:** ![Reeses\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reeses_monkey/32/2885_2.png) [@Reeses\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeses_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/7 "2019-07-04T20:57:10Z")
I’ve read it, too. I used to buy those Best SF/Horror of the Year anthologies and I’m sure it was in one of those. I had the books released from 1988-92, if that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/8 "2019-07-04T21:07:25Z")
GaryM, are you seriously asking if any of us know the Arthur C. Clarke story “The Nine Billion Names of God”? Of course we do. It’s very well known: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?38044](http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?38044) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/9 "2019-07-04T21:09:27Z")
We remember them. Just don’t write them down. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/10 "2019-07-04T23:06:41Z")
Maybe it was a Haldeman short story? I seem to remember this but its not in my end of the world short stories. Could it be some conflation with the Martian Chronicles? I dunno. All the pieces in one story dont seem familiar. But seperate parts do. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/11 "2019-07-04T23:17:30Z")
Mack Reynolds has a story about Indian treaties (Good Indian) but it’s clearly not the one the OP is looking for ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/12 "2019-07-05T00:19:29Z")
Thanks for the replies, but I don’t think we have a match yet. Another detail I think I remember about the story structure; there are alternating sections, one of the machinations going on in D.C., the other of a shaman doing a ritual. That’s all I’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/13 "2019-07-05T00:55:10Z")
“Or the Grasses Grow” by Avram Davidson > **[The Avram Davidson Treasury](https://books.google.com/books?id=2MletZyBxT0C&pg=PT131&lpg=PT131&dq=%22or%2Bthe%2Bgrasses%2Bgrow%22&source=bl&ots=hJNENbFTri&sig=ACfU3U2_7SO6NNHaT4KnvZSgvjBrn9TrlA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXoKqrxpzjAhXOZs0KHXRGDCYQ6AEwDHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22or%20the%20grasses%20grow%22&f=false)** > > Avram Davidson was one of the great original American writers of this century. He was erudite, cranky, Jewish, wildly creative, and sold most of his wonderful stories to pulp magazines. They are wonderful.Now his estate and his friends have brought... I remembered reading the same story, and after some extensive Google-Fu I tracked it down. Here’s the publication history from the ISFDB: [Title: Or the Grasses Grow](http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?46046) ---
**Author:** ![Reeses\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reeses_monkey/32/2885_2.png) [@Reeses\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeses_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/14 "2019-07-05T01:25:08Z")
Thanks, **LurkMeister**! I’d been wanting to reread that story myself. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/15 "2019-07-05T01:36:10Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > “Or the Grasses Grow” by Avram Davidson > > [The Avram Davidson Treasury: A Tribute Collection - Avram Davidson - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=2MletZyBxT0C&pg=PT131&lpg=PT131&dq=%22or+the+grasses+grow%22&source=bl&ots=hJNENbFTri&sig=ACfU3U2_7SO6NNHaT4KnvZSgvjBrn9TrlA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiXoKqrxpzjAhXOZs0KHXRGDCYQ6AEwDHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22or%20the%20grasses%20grow%22&f=false) > > I remembered reading the same story, and after some extensive Google-Fu I tracked it down. Here’s the publication history from the ISFDB: [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?46046](http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?46046) So someone besides me confuses Davidson stories with Lafferty stories… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/16 "2019-07-05T01:37:24Z")
That was a tough one! Good job, **Lurkmeister**! Good job, SDMB! ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/17 "2019-07-05T08:52:59Z")
Wow…that “see all book covers story appears in” function is amazing ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/18 "2019-07-05T10:19:54Z")
Um, what? Where is there a “see all book covers story appears in” function? Using the ISFDb, you can find all the books that a story appears in, but what would it even mean for a story to appear in a book cover? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/19 "2019-07-05T11:49:32Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Um, what? Where is there a “see all book covers story appears in” function? Using the ISFDb, you can find all the books that a story appears in, but what would it even mean for a story to appear in a book cover? You really can’t parse that to mean “See the covers of the books in which this story appears?” ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520/20 "2019-07-05T12:28:47Z")
I can’t parse it to mean anything clear. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-short-story-id-help/836520.md?page=2)