# Science fiction story about everyone forced to be average **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 12, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792 "2009-04-12T01:27:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/21 "2009-04-12T18:19:14Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > There was a film like this made in the 1990s, a tv movie I think. Someone like Brendan Fraser was in it too. Was it a remake or something else? It’s been discussed upthread. It was a TV movie from 1995 > **[Harrison Bergeron (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron_(film))** > > Harrison Bergeron is a science fiction television movie film loosely adapted from Kurt Vonnegut's 1961 dystopian short story of the same name. It was produced for Showtime and first screened on August 13, 1995. It was released to VHS in 1998. > Harrison Bergeron lives in the fictional suburban town of Madison, Rhode Island in the year 2053. The audience is told that after the second American Revolution, which started during an ongoing economic depression that was a result of a combination of te... ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/22 "2009-04-12T19:02:44Z")
> [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](#): > > I just read the story from **IvoryTowerDenizen** ’s link. It contains no physical description of Diana Moon Glampers. I think you’re only signaling what you think of Janet Reno ;). Huh. You’re right, of course, but it’s interesting that when I first read this story, I thought of Diana Moon Glampers as bearing a remarkable resemblance to Janet Reno as well. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/23 "2009-04-12T19:29:07Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Of all the great short stories I read as a kid, this one stands out as one of the very best… I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/24 "2009-04-13T15:34:43Z")
> [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](#): > > I just read the story from **IvoryTowerDenizen** ’s link. It contains no physical description of Diana Moon Glampers. I think you’re only signaling what you think of Janet Reno ;). All right, I did some searching around, and there’s a character named “Diana Moon Glampers” in another Vonnegut book, _God Bless You Mr. Rosewater_. She’s not the Handicapper General, but she did have a description that was reminiscent of Janet Reno. Especially the “sixty eight year old virgin” part. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/25 "2009-04-13T15:55:08Z")
I’d like to take this opportunity to suggest everyone go out and buy Vonnegut’s _Welcome to the Monkey House_. Harrison Bergeron is one of many great short stories in there. A ten-gauge shotgun is much bigger than a 12-gauge and would pack a huge kick. I always pictured the Handicapper General as a much bigger women; sort of a large version of of Dolores Umbridge from the Harry Potter books. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/26 "2009-04-13T16:09:09Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > In what way? I liked the film. I saw it before I realised there even was a short story. The movie was a humorless work of overcooked philosophy. The story was a funny tale with philosophical underpinnings. The idea of enforced mediocrity was worth about 12 pages with jokes. The movie was closer to an Ayn Rand tract. The real movie version of “Harrison Bergeron” was PIxar’s _The Incredibles_. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/27 "2009-04-14T10:06:20Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I think you are talking about the same one we were upthread. It was made for cable channel Showtime in 1995 and starred Sean Astin. :smack: Of course. Thanks. [QUOTE= Peter Morris] It’s been discussed upthread. It was a TV movie from 1995 > **[Harrison Bergeron (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron_(film))** > > Harrison Bergeron is a science fiction television movie film loosely adapted from Kurt Vonnegut's 1961 dystopian short story of the same name. It was produced for Showtime and first screened on August 13, 1995. It was released to VHS in 1998. > Harrison Bergeron lives in the fictional suburban town of Madison, Rhode Island in the year 2053. The audience is told that after the second American Revolution, which started during an ongoing economic depression that was a result of a combination of te... [/QUOTE] Thanks for link. I gotta start taking my coffee earlier in the day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/28 "2009-04-14T11:05:12Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > There was a film like this made in the 1990s, a tv movie I think. Someone like Brendan Fraser was in it too. Was it a remake or something else? It was [Sean Austin](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0113264/). Ironically, in that world he may have actually started for Notre Dame. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/29 "2009-04-14T11:13:01Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > True. In a few short pages, Kurt Vonnegut far more effectively conveyed his message about forced mediocrity than Ayn Rand did in several rambling novels. Vonnegut was also a lot funnier than Rand. Fair enough, however Rand works rings truer. Why force people to wear distracting noisemakers to prevent them from using their intellect or weights to prevent them from using their athletic ability when you can simply legislate that everyone else gets to reap the benefits of being exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/30 "2009-04-14T11:39:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Fair enough, however Rand works rings truer. Why force people to wear distracting noisemakers to prevent them from using their intellect or weights to prevent them from using their athletic ability when you can simply legislate that everyone else gets to reap the benefits of being exceptional. Nah, Rand is just more obsessed and less entertaining, kinda like Rush Limbaugh who can stretch a small story about about a class of first graders not being given grades into a three hour program on the death of competition. Society is still extremely competitive. Grades are given, athletes are worshiped, salaries vary wildly, universities and corporations reject applicants. Like I wrote earlier, the ideas of enforced mediocrity is worth 12 pages with jokes. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/31 "2009-04-14T13:25:49Z")
> [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](#): > > I just read the story from **IvoryTowerDenizen** ’s link. It contains no physical description of Diana Moon Glampers. I think you’re only signaling what you think of Janet Reno ;). I remember reading that story in middle? school. It was in a school reading book containing a collection of many kinds of stories. It had a black and white picture of Glampers, holding a double barrel. She was dressed like a cross between a Nazi and one of the Clampets (Beverly Hillbillies). She also DID IIRC look Janet Renoish. As a kid I remember thinking she looked like one angry and scary woman. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/32 "2009-05-02T11:11:29Z")
I hate that entire genre. Vonnegut had some sense of humor about it, but really, there’s a whole genre of that nonsense that came out the in the 1960’s. Was it ever anything but a straw man & an argument against racial equality? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/33 "2009-05-02T13:15:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I hate that entire genre. Vonnegut had some sense of humor about it, but really, there’s a whole genre of that nonsense that came out the in the 1960’s. Was it ever anything but a straw man & an argument against racial equality? They were arguments against communism and socialism. The genre is a commentary on how ridiculous the notion of “each according to their need” is. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/34 "2009-05-02T20:21:29Z")
For similar ideas in a full novel, there’s \*Facial Justice \*by L.P. Hartley, copyright 1960. The Vonnegut story was, I think, copyright 1961, so they were out at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/35 "2009-05-02T23:24:30Z")
Vonnegut treated the same theme in _Sirens of Titan,_ only it was part of a religion (the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent) that swept the world and people adopted their handicaps willingly in the spirit of love and brotherhood. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792/36 "2009-05-03T00:08:56Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > For similar ideas in a full novel, there’s \*Facial Justice \*by L.P. Hartley, copyright 1960. The Vonnegut story was, I think, copyright 1961, so they were out at the same time. Yeah, that’s the one I was thinking of. > [@msmith537](#): > > They were arguments against communism and socialism. The genre is a commentary on how ridiculous the notion of “each according to their need” is. Which is still a straw man, & completely misunderstands the difference between equality of opportunity & equality of outcomes. Ultimately, “Harrison Bergeron” & _Facial Justice_ become seed-arguments for maintaining elites, including racial elites. When you’re taught to hate & fear “equality,” that meshes wonderfully with pro-imperial sentiment (in the Commonwealth) & opposition to Affirmative Action (in USA). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-story-about-everyone-forced-to-be-average/492792.md?page=1)