# Science fiction with no human characters **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 12, 2002, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602 "2002-08-12T22:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/21 "2002-08-13T14:42:39Z")
**Farscape** is a TV show that has only one human in it. There was one episode last year that featured everyone else but him(though he appeared for about 10 seconds as a memory). ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/22 "2002-08-13T15:40:30Z")
From the rec.arts.sf.written faq (found at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/rec/arts/sf/written/rec.arts.sf.written\_Frequently\_Asked\_Questions\_(FAQ) ) > [@](#): > > J. Only non-human characters > > Suggestions so far include: > Robert Asprin’s BUG WARS > John Brunner’s CRUCIBLE OF TIME > Mary Caraker’s WATERSONG > Arthur C. Clarke’s “Second Dawn” > Samuel R. Delany’s EINSTEIN INTERSECTION > Diane E. Gallagher’s ALIEN DARK (mostly) > Raymond F. Jones & Lester del Rey’s WEEPING MAY TARRY > Ross Rocklynne’s SUN DESTROYERS > H. Beam Piper’s FIRST CYCLE > Robert J. Sawyer’s “Quintaglio” Trilogy: FAR-SEER, FOSSIL HUNTER, > and FOREIGNER > Robert Silverberg’s AT WINTER’S END and THE NEW SPRINGTIME > Olaf Stapledon’s STAR MAKER and NEBULA MAKER > James Tiptree’s “Love Is the Plan, the Plan Is Death” ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/23 "2002-08-13T15:49:53Z")
From the rec.arts.sf.written faq (found at ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/rec/arts/sf/written/rec.arts.sf.written\_Frequently\_Asked\_Questions\_(FAQ) ) > [@](#): > > J. Only non-human characters > > Suggestions so far include: > Robert Asprin’s BUG WARS > John Brunner’s CRUCIBLE OF TIME > Mary Caraker’s WATERSONG > Arthur C. Clarke’s “Second Dawn” > Samuel R. Delany’s EINSTEIN INTERSECTION > Diane E. Gallagher’s ALIEN DARK (mostly) > Raymond F. Jones & Lester del Rey’s WEEPING MAY TARRY > Ross Rocklynne’s SUN DESTROYERS > H. Beam Piper’s FIRST CYCLE > Robert J. Sawyer’s “Quintaglio” Trilogy: FAR-SEER, FOSSIL HUNTER, > and FOREIGNER > Robert Silverberg’s AT WINTER’S END and THE NEW SPRINGTIME > Olaf Stapledon’s STAR MAKER and NEBULA MAKER > James Tiptree’s “Love Is the Plan, the Plan Is Death” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/24 "2002-08-13T16:57:50Z")
Hmm. I thought about _Star Maker_, but decided it was disqualified on account of the first-person narrator being (initially, at least) human… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/25 "2002-08-13T17:18:04Z")
How about Watership Down? ---
**Author:** ![montag01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@montag01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montag01)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/26 "2002-08-13T18:12:47Z")
Or the Secret of NIMH. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/27 "2002-08-13T20:33:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ethilrist \* > \*\*How about Watership Down? \*\* I mentioned it in the OP. It’s what I would offer to **Linus Van Pelt** , in fact, in response to his point: > [@](#): > > for the most part human identification is necessary for good storytelling … I’m not saying that it couldn’t be done, but that it would be very difficult to create a completely alien character in a completely alien setting and make it interesting to us …Just to say that yes, it can be done. Using human characters obviously makes identification easier, but it isn’t necessary, per se. From _Watership Down_, we see that it can be done because it _has_ been done, and what’s more, it’s considered a classic. Indeed, I’d observe that none of the works mentioned so far really qualifies as a classic, Bradbury’s shorts excluded. **Darwin’s Finch** brings up _Raptor Red_, which I have read and enjoyed and then forgot about; it’s a work of remarkable imagination presented with awkward prose. And several other titles do make me nod in vague recollection, particularly _Bug Wars_ and _Crucible of Time_, both of which I need to pick up. I’m finding all of this very interesting; thanks to everyone for the responses so far. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/28 "2002-08-13T22:23:49Z")
Not precisely science fiction, but Edwin A. Abbot’s _Flatland: A Romance in Many Dimensions_ deserves mention as a narrative by an alien intelligence - at least as alien as the one in _Watership Down_ ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/29 "2002-08-13T22:48:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Horseflesh \* > \*\*FTR, _The Dark Crystal_ is the only live-action movie I can think of that has no humans in it. _Antz_ is one that I can think of that had no humans but it’s all CG of course. They are merely anthropomorphized insects. \*\* Everything said about _Antz_ also applies to _A Bug’s Life_. The characters may look like bugs, but they might as well as well be human. In fact, the plot is just a comedy version of _Seven Samurai_. ---
**Author:** ![montag01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@montag01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montag01)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/30 "2002-08-13T22:49:43Z")
Alright, damnit, it’s time for us to write the classic SF novel that involves no humans or aliens with overtly human emotional characteristcs! With so many monkeys like us working on the manuscript, I’m sure we’ll have a marketable first draft in a decade or so. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/31 "2002-08-13T23:21:19Z")
Many years ago, I read a few stories (in _Analog_, I believe, although it could have been _Asimov’s_) which took place on a planet where there were no humans. In the first of these stories, the main character is an intelligent life-form rather like a giant ameoba. In a later story, another type of life-form appears, looking somewhat crab-like, IIRC, but acting rather like humans. I remember being disappointed when the more human characters joined the “cast” because it was so interesting reading stories in which all the characters were so alien. Unfortunately, I can’t remember the titles of the stories or who wrote them. I thought it might be Joan D. Vinge, but none of the titles listed in her bibliography rings a bell. ---
**Author:** ![Doubting\_Robert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e495f1/32.png) [@Doubting\_Robert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubting_Robert)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/32 "2002-08-13T23:32:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Horseflesh \* > \*\*FTR, _The Dark Crystal_ is the only live-action movie I can think of that has no humans in it. \*\* [hijack] There are several live-action movies with no humans. Most of them are documentaries, and many of them are from Disney (The African Lion, The Living Desert, etc.). Disney did make at least one full-length “True Life Fantasy” - a movie called Perri, based on a book (which **does** have human characters) from the author of Bambi. Perri is live-action, has no humans, and is not a documentary. It would be a real stretch to call it science-fiction, however. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/33 "2002-08-14T00:33:26Z")
If you’re gonna mention Watership down, then would you count the Redwall books? Or Wind in the Willows? Or do they meld more in fantasy than Sci-fi? ---
**Author:** ![Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Linus\_Van\_Pelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linus_Van_Pelt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/34 "2002-08-14T04:40:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\* > … > It’s what I would offer to **Linus Van Pelt** , in fact, in response to his point:…Just to say that yes, it can be done. Using human characters obviously makes identification easier, but it isn’t necessary, per se. From _Watership Down_, we see that it can be done because it _has_ been done, and what’s more, it’s considered a classic. > … > \*\* I have not read Watership Down (although I have heard that it is a classic and should be placed on my “to read” list). Are the rabbits (it’s rabbits, right) in Watership Down anthropomorphised? My point was _not_ that there must be human characters for the reader to readily identify, but that they must posses human _characteristics_ for reader to make the necessary emotional connection. What is the real difference between humans that are human, those that are described as human and act human even though they are aliens, and characters that are described as something else entirely (animals, aliens, etc.) but _still act human_? I’ll wait until someone mentions a work with a totally alien cast (in physical makeup and thoughts/actions) that is considered more than an interesting experiment in writing before I concede that point. In fact, I don’t think that I’ll concede it until I’m shown numerous examples because I didn’t say that it was impossible, just very difficult. Along these lines, I think we may need to refine the question a little. Does a story with anthropomorphised “others” count for what you’re looking for? Or does it need to be non-humans that also act pretty darn alien as well? However, we do agree on one point. This is an interesting discussion. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/35 "2002-08-14T05:13:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Along these lines, I think we may need to refine the question a little. Does a story with anthropomorphised “others” count for what you’re looking for? Or does it need to be non-humans that also act pretty darn alien as well? One of my favorite high-school English teachers taught us that the only thing a story needs is conflict. He had an interesting point–you can theoretically envision a story without any dramatis personae, so long as there’s a goal and a hump that needs to be overcome. (Likewise, a story without conflict isn’t a story at all: it’s just fact recitation.) I guess it comes down to this: if struggle is the essence of what it means to be human, then you can’t escape that particular human element of storytelling per se. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/36 "2002-08-14T14:52:35Z")
Thouhg it is slightly off-topic, there is a nifty old PC game called Ascendancy. Its one of those 4X (Expansion, Exploration, something, and Extremination) games involving galactic exploration and empire building. There are no human types. There are about 20 or so different alien species to be. Some of them are very funny, and all represent a certain aspect or drive of humankind. For example, the Ballifalids represent humanity’s sense of humor, friendliness, and friendship. The Chamachis represent humankind’s scientific endouvers and desire to know, the Minions are man’s destructive and violent nature in the service of others. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/37 "2002-08-14T19:31:06Z")
Asimov had a short story where the main characters were evolved from bears, living in the far future after we humans have all wiped each other out. They eventually meet up with other creatures who are very like humans, but evolved from chimpanzees. I think that the title was something like “No Connection” or something else suggesting coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/38 "2002-08-14T19:44:21Z")
You may scoff, but there are many stories in the Transformers-type-area that lack human characters (although one could argue that the characters or culture has been human-influenced). The animated _Beast Wars_ and _Beast Machines_ come to mind, as well as the upcoming _The War Within_ comic. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/39 "2002-08-14T20:41:46Z")
_The Anna Nicole Show_? ---
**Author:** ![Pixellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@Pixellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixellent)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602/40 "2002-08-14T21:13:13Z")
Robert L. Forward, the astrophysicist, tried his hand at a novel called _Dragon’s Egg_ (no relation to the non-fiction book about the hunt for a dangerous computer hacker). Essentially, the book was the answer to a scientific “what-if:” Could a race of creatures evolve on the surface of a star and, if so, what would they be like? The book switches back and forth between the life of these creatures and a set of human characters on a mission to explore the star where the aliens live. There’s never a moment, if I remember correctly, where the aliens and the humans meet, interact or communicate: it’s just two parallel, non-intersecting stories. The thing I found most fascinating about the book was this: Forward succeeded in creating a completely alien race of beings, bearing no resemblance whatsoever to humans, scientifically valid, and totally absorbing. On this other hand, his humans were the most boring, cliched pack of cardboard standups you’ve ever seen, made to jump through the hoops of a ludicrous soap-opera plot just so the book could have some characters that, theoretically, the readers could identify with. All of which proved to me that, as a novelist, Forward was one hell of an astrophysicist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-fiction-with-no-human-characters/123602.md?page=1)