# Science says Incels are right about everything. What happens next? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677 "2019-07-26T18:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/222 "2019-07-27T17:24:43Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Sometimes, I find that if people keep saying the same thing to me over and over, it’s because I’m missing something. In other words: go on. What is your point, and how has it not been adequately addressed by the many people saying “sure, but there are all these options available that are neither suicide nor the indentured servitude of a suitably attractive human woman?” If everyone agrees with what I said, why is it illegal for them to be able to pay a willing sex therapy worker like I described then? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/223 "2019-07-27T17:26:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Even the term “lower your standards” is a misnomer. Incels, who feel like the world is shallow and discriminates against them for their appearance, are shallow and discriminate against potential partners because of their appearance. The “perfect 10” person they want to sleep with or even have a relationship with might be a miserable person they have nothing in common with. The person who doesn’t look perfect might be a better match. What incels don’t get is that as you get to know a person, and you are compatible, they will become more physically attractive to you. And vice versa. > > It’s not that their standards are high, their standards are wrong. I mean yes, obviously. And just as obviously there’s way more to a fulfilling relationship than just sex (although obviously if he/she/they can suck your Adam’s apple all the way down, no points are deducted) and for any kind of long term thing being mentally compatible is a whole lot more important than just looking nice on Instagram and so on and so forth. But that’s not really what the incel community is about, either. The gist of it is : they feel like they deserve sex for being [whatever], and not just sex but sex from pornstar-looking chicks. While at the same time looking down on pornstar-looking chicks. The whole thing is hypocritical as hell from the get go (and then they build upon it). And I’m saying this as a guy who fell from the ugly tree, hit every branch on the way down, shook himself up and said “Oh yeah ? Well fuck you ! Hold m’beer you guys, watch this” before climbing back up. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/224 "2019-07-27T17:36:40Z")
> [@doctordean](#): > > Thank you for helping people getting the information. An [educational website](https://www.bestforstudy.com) That makes your life easy by having each and every information about [education](https://www.bestforstudy.com) in one place. Feel free to visit [https://www.bestforstudy.com](https://www.bestforstudy.com) [https://www.bestforstudy.com](https://www.bestforstudy.com) Another day at the Dope. Two obvious socks and incel trolling. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/225 "2019-07-27T17:40:27Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > Another day at the Dope. Two obvious socks and incel trolling. Of course it would have to be trolling to talk about this issue. Only a troll would give a shit about whether young men are becoming increasingly lonely, depressed, sexually frustrated, hateful, isolated, and suicidal or want to reflect on why or how to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/226 "2019-07-27T17:53:40Z")
[Well, sure](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll). Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/227 "2019-07-27T17:56:13Z")
As far as I can tell, the entire thread boils down to: society must provide women to men, so that men can fuck them. This is very, very wrong. It is wrong no matter how many times and ways you say “but biology”. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/228 "2019-07-27T17:58:57Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > That’s more social Darwinism. Again do you believe in social Darwinism across the board? Or just in this area? > > ie. Everyone has to survive and accomplish everything on their own merit and no one deserves help with anything. I will say I believe in providing services where society has a legitimate interest. Society needs healthy, educated workers, so we need healthcare and education. Society has no corresponding interest in delivering sex to people who apparently spend all their time convincing themselves that society needs to deliver them sex. > [@](#): > > I already said sex robots for example would be a perfect solution. So why would that be a problem? I also suggested therapeutic sex workers like they have in Britain and support groups might help. If you were being honest here, you’d be sharing more links on to create the perfect sex robot, or in social policy around sex work. Shouldn’t incels actually be working on that? Maybe they could get together and solve those things. But instead they focus on how the evil conspiracy of chads and stacys that keeps them from getting what they’re entitled to. You’re not after sex surrogates. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/229 "2019-07-27T18:00:46Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Of course it would have to be trolling to talk about this issue. Only a troll would give a shit about whether young men are becoming increasingly lonely, depressed, sexually frustrated, hateful, isolated, and suicidal or want to reflect on why or how to fix it. 1. Get off the Internet 2. Don’t hang out with others with the same problems 3. Say “hello” to women who fall roughly on the same part of the “looks spectrum” as you do 4. Get a therapist for the real problem… the autism, etc… and not the situations which arise from it (like an “incel therapist for autistic people”). So… try the above. See what happens. Or you can stay on the internet and whine and perpetuate the problem. Your choice ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/230 "2019-07-27T18:01:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > [Well, sure](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll). Hope that helps. Why don’t you tell me what I actually said in this thread that was so controversial or trolling then? No one has even disagreed with me on anything so far that I recall except on my definition of the word “incel”, where I used the same one that was used in the BBC documentary and all those 2018/2019 articles I linked. Also concern trolling requires visiting a site with a “different ideology”. Since when is Straight Dope’s ideology anything but the pursuit of truth? That’s why I posted it here. If I was expecting this type of response I wouldn’t have bothered. This has been absolutely pointless. I thought people here could either validate or disprove the science and then if it wasn’t disproven, we could have a discussion about ways we could fix the problem. Obviously I was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/231 "2019-07-27T18:05:47Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I will say I believe in providing services where society has a legitimate interest. Society needs healthy, educated workers, so we need healthcare and education. Society has no corresponding interest in delivering sex to people who apparently spend all their time convincing themselves that society needs to deliver them sex. > > If you were being honest here, you’d be sharing more links on to create the perfect sex robot, or in social policy around sex work. Shouldn’t incels actually be working on that? Maybe they could get together and solve those things. But instead they focus on how the evil conspiracy of chads and stacys that keeps them from getting what they’re entitled to. You’re not after sex surrogates. So you don’t think [this woman is providing people a real benefit](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/sex-worker-disabled-people-taboo-10792163) or valid service? Also wtf? In order to start a discussion about fixing the incel problem I need to be a Boston Dynamics engineer posting schematics on servos, etc.? Why don’t you think sex surrogates should be legal or why don’t you think they’d help at least some men? Why isn’t that at least one valid option to consider? You can’t force women to fuck men they don’t want to. But you can compensate them and allow them to do it of their own free will for money. There’s nothing unethical about that. It’s a simple voluntary consensual exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/232 "2019-07-27T18:05:50Z")
I believe people have disagreed with you about everything. The word “incel” is the least of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/233 "2019-07-27T18:14:13Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Why don’t you tell me what I actually said in this thread that was so controversial or trolling then? No one has even disagreed with me on anything so far that I recall except on my definition of the word “incel”, where I used the same one that was used in the BBC documentary and all those 2018/2019 articles I linked. > > Also concern trolling requires visiting a site with a “different ideology”. Since when is Straight Dope’s ideology anything but the pursuit of truth? That’s why I posted it here. If I was expecting this type of response I wouldn’t have bothered. This has been absolutely pointless. I thought people here could either validate or disprove the science and then if it wasn’t disproven, we could have a discussion about ways we could fix the problem. Obviously I was mistaken. How about “No.” Furthermore, how about “Fuck off”. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/234 "2019-07-27T18:14:44Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I believe people have disagreed with you about everything. The word “incel” is the least of it. Specifically what? I’ve now written 54 pointless posts in this pointless thread. Quote me where I said something that was provably factually wrong or blatantly inflammatory besides the title of this thread which was admittedly perhaps a bit overly sensationalistic. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/236 "2019-07-27T18:37:44Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Since when is Straight Dope’s ideology anything but the pursuit of truth? It must be discouraging to see this forum change in so many ways over time, to the extent that it risks abandoning its core principles, since you joined yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/237 "2019-07-27T18:38:53Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Specifically what? I’ve now written 54 pointless posts in this pointless thread. > > Quote me where I said something that was provably factually wrong or blatantly inflammatory besides the title of this thread which was admittedly perhaps a bit overly sensationalistic. You are correct (finally). Every post of yours in this thread is pointless. No sex slaves for you. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/238 "2019-07-27T18:43:30Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > You are correct (finally). Every post of yours in this thread is pointless. No sex slaves for you. At no point have I said anything about sex slaves, nor do I believe that anyone should have sex slaves. I specifically have said I don’t believe you can force anyone to have sex with anyone else multiple times. Who is trolling now? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/239 "2019-07-27T18:45:52Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > At no point have I said anything about sex slaves, nor do I believe that anyone should **have** sex slaves. I specifically have said I don’t believe you can force anyone to have sex with anyone else multiple times. > > Who is trolling now? Of course not. You expect them to be shared. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/240 "2019-07-27T18:49:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Of course not. You expect them to be shared. Do you mean that seriously? Or are you trolling? Ie. Do you believe that’s what legalized prostitution represents? Shared sex slavery? I think as long as a woman makes the choice to do that for a living, it is her right and autonomy. It’s only a problem if someone forces her, but from what I’ve seen on sex worker documentaries, that’s actually pretty rare. I think most women are in the line of work by some choice of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/241 "2019-07-27T18:53:38Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Do you mean that seriously? Or are you trolling? Ie. Do you believe that’s what legalized prostitution represents? Shared sex slavery? > > I think as long as a woman makes the choice to do that for a living, it is her right and autonomy. It’s only a problem if someone forces her, but from what I’ve seen on sex worker documentaries, that’s actually pretty rare. Objection : capitalism, bro. System itself forces her regardless of any more direct coercion. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and there sure as shit ain’t no ethical paid blowjob. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/242 "2019-07-27T18:57:58Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Objection : capitalism, bro. System itself forces her regardless of any more direct coercion. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, and there sure as shit ain’t no ethical paid blowjob. Yeah but I don’t think it’s any less ethical than any other part of capitalism. A man who works heavy labor his whole life until his back and knees blow out and ends up in chronic pain hooked on percocets could be said to have been coerced into that disability as well. Capitalism can be ugly in general. But I don’t think a capitalist sex market is any uglier than any other part of capitalism. Some countries do have legal prostitution and it hasn’t caused mass social destruction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=13)