# Science says Incels are right about everything. What happens next? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677 "2019-07-26T18:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/21 "2019-07-26T19:49:27Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > There _are_ actually women name Stacy, and there actually used to be at least a couple of men named Chad. Hell, there’s a whole country named Chad on the western border of Sudan. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/22 "2019-07-26T19:49:45Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Well, at the very least, we know they’re not procreating. So how come they still seem to be multiplying? 😕 That said, I’d be afraid to click that link with a sandbox in a sandbox in a sandbox through a VPN filtered through another VPN. But I can say, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the scientific _evidence_ contained within is on par with the _evidence_ which proves aliens are kept at Area 51, we did not land on the moon, vaccines don’t work, and the earth is flat. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/23 "2019-07-26T19:52:06Z")
Yes, a warning about the dodgy website in the link, for those who don’t want to spend the evening reinstalling their browser, would have been nice. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/24 "2019-07-26T19:52:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The sources themselves are perfectly solid. > > Sources that were cited: > \*\* > University of Richmond > Pew Social Trends > National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) > SAGE Journal > Research Gate > National Bureau of Economic Research > Bureau of Justice Statistics > Research Direct > Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry > BBC > University of Chicago > Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences > Stanford University > \*\* Well, I’m not going down the rabbit hole of that site, but are, by any chance, those citations actually claiming exactly what the incel site is claiming? Or are they distorting the findings to claim they support their position? Because NO, all of these places are NOT presenting studies that say “Yup, Incels are exactly, 100% right in all of their suppositions.” Most likely, they’re only saying “Yes, Incels believe this and feel this way” which is not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/25 "2019-07-26T19:53:17Z")
There are lots of ugly and poor dudes with partners. The difference is social skills, not suffering from depression, and being reasonable about who you can interest and moving on if you can’t. One might also note that even if you’re unable to develop the social skills and etc. you have the choice to spend your time bitching about women or learning to use your hand and moving on with life. We don’t all always get everything we want. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/26 "2019-07-26T19:56:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The sources themselves are perfectly solid. > > Sources that were cited: > \*\* > University of Richmond > Pew Social Trends > National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) > SAGE Journal > Research Gate > National Bureau of Economic Research > Bureau of Justice Statistics > Research Direct > Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry > BBC > University of Chicago > Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences > Stanford University > \*\* > > If we weren’t discussing incel-dom, but rather, some other psychological topic such as adolescent education or drug addiction, most Dopers would accept such sources without a second thought. IOW, the reason the sources are being rejected is not because of the sources themselves, but because of the incels citing them. We don’t need or care about scientific studies proving they are unfuckable. We know that already from just their attitude. Should they be given sex slaves because of that? No fucking way. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/27 "2019-07-26T19:59:52Z")
There are even ugly, poor dudes with beautiful partners. What do these women see in these men? The way to find out would be to ask them. Unfortunately, that whole business of “talking to people” is beyond the typical incel’s level of social skills. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/28 "2019-07-26T20:05:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The sources themselves are perfectly solid. > > Sources that were cited: > \*\* > University of Richmond > Pew Social Trends > National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) > SAGE Journal > Research Gate > National Bureau of Economic Research > Bureau of Justice Statistics > Research Direct > Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry > BBC > University of Chicago > Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences > Stanford University > \*\* > > If we weren’t discussing incel-dom, but rather, some other psychological topic such as adolescent education or drug addiction, most Dopers would accept such sources without a second thought. IOW, the reason the sources are being rejected is not because of the sources themselves, but because of the incels citing them. “Incels are dumb” – cite, Harvard University research. That’s barely less rigorous than a sampling of the cite in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/29 "2019-07-26T20:05:16Z")
> **[This is the No. 1 thing 64,000 women want from a lover: survey](https://nypost.com/2019/07/24/this-is-the-no-1-thing-64000-women-want-from-a-lover-survey/)** > > Countless books, websites, articles and movies have been dedicated to the quest to understand life’s greatest mystery: What do women want? The answer, as it turns out, is simply to not be tre… \*The survey polled more than 64,000 people in 180 countries, asking them about their ideal match — from religious or political preferences to the importance of height. Most women asked identified as heterosexual, but queer and bisexual women also responded. The survey skews young: Nearly 40,600 of the women are ages 18 to 24, with the 25-to-29 age group the second biggest demo. Just under 3,800 were 40 years or older. Almost 90% of the women rank kindness highest among desirable qualities, followed closely by supportiveness at 86.5%. Intelligence received about 72% of the vote; level of education had 64.5%; and rounding out the Top 5 is confidence, with a little over 60%. Notice “attractiveness” did not top the list. That might explain why the “average” body type (looking at you, dad bods!) was vastly preferred over “very muscular” types, with 44.8% versus a marginal 2.5%, respectively.\* and… \*heterosexual women put average penis as No. 3, followed by large hands and, interestingly, a short head of hair \* ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/30 "2019-07-26T20:06:52Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, I’m not going down the rabbit hole of that site, but are, by any chance, those citations actually claiming exactly what the incel site is claiming? Or are they distorting the findings to claim they support their position? By and large, yes. For instance, one part claims that white/Caucasian skin is generally considered more attractive. The cited source says as much. [Attractiveness Based Partly on Skin Color | Live Science](https://www.livescience.com/5860-attractiveness-based-partly-skin-color.html) ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/31 "2019-07-26T20:11:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > By and large, yes. For instance, one part claims that white/Caucasian skin is generally considered more attractive. The cited source says as much. [Attractiveness Based Partly on Skin Color | Live Science](https://www.livescience.com/5860-attractiveness-based-partly-skin-color.html) Ok, so what? They should get sex slaves? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/32 "2019-07-26T20:12:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If we weren’t discussing incel-dom, but rather, some other psychological topic such as adolescent education or drug addiction, most Dopers would accept such sources without a second thought. Seriously? You’re going to pull that card? :dubious: Major claims require major evidence. If the topic was blue whale mating rituals, sure, I’ll accept a cited claim without extensively questioning or checking the sources. But there’s not a toxic internet subculture known for distorting facts and research about blue whales (unless I just created it right now?). But since there is a toxic internet subculture of incels who are known for distorting facts and research about human sexuality, how about we stop equivocating, playing Devil’s advocate, drawing false equivalences, and whatever other logical fallacies and rhetorical chicanery typically get pulled by these jerkwads JAQ’ing off all over the place, eh? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/33 "2019-07-26T20:15:56Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > [This is the No. 1 thing 64,000 women want from a lover: survey](https://nypost.com/2019/07/24/this-is-the-no-1-thing-64000-women-want-from-a-lover-survey/) > > \*The survey polled more than 64,000 people in 180 countries, asking them about their ideal match — from religious or political preferences to the importance of height. Most women asked identified as heterosexual, but queer and bisexual women also responded. The survey skews young: Nearly 40,600 of the women are ages 18 to 24, with the 25-to-29 age group the second biggest demo. Just under 3,800 were 40 years or older. > > Almost 90% of the women rank kindness highest among desirable qualities, followed closely by supportiveness at 86.5%. Intelligence received about 72% of the vote; level of education had 64.5%; and rounding out the Top 5 is confidence, with a little over 60%. > > Notice “attractiveness” did not top the list. That might explain why the “average” body type (looking at you, dad bods!) was vastly preferred over “very muscular” types, with 44.8% versus a marginal 2.5%, respectively.\* > > and… > > \*heterosexual women put average penis as No. 3, followed by large hands and, interestingly, a short head of hair \* So, “insecure, creepy as fuck, whiny misogynistic sociopath”, was just edged out from a top 5 spot? Bummer. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/34 "2019-07-26T20:17:04Z")
So what if science somehow proves them right about what women want in men? It isn’t going to make them or their attitudes suck any less. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/35 "2019-07-26T20:18:46Z")
I certainly wouldn’t trust Velocity’s claims. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/36 "2019-07-26T20:19:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So what if science somehow proves them right about what women want in men? > > It isn’t going to make them or their attitudes suck any less. And to add insult to injury, women will still refuse to fuck them. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/37 "2019-07-26T20:26:34Z")
Without clicking on the link, I generally have the impression that many of the Incels assumptions seem correct, but incomplete. And that they draw some very strange and twisted conclusions from them. I can absolutely believe that women prefer sex with the most attractive-looking males, all other things being equal. But I don’t believe all other things are equal, or that its the only thing that matters. And I can believe that males with poor looks, depression and poor social skills won’t see much casual sex. I just don’t believe thats womens fault. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/38 "2019-07-26T20:26:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, I’m not going down the rabbit hole of that site, but are, by any chance, those citations actually claiming exactly what the incel site is claiming? Or are they distorting the findings to claim they support their position? They are distorting the findings to claim they support their position. From what I can see, the actual quotes they claim appear in the citations do appear in the citations. But they are absolutely cherrypicking and building preposterous houses of cards upon those foundations, and peppering their analysis with just outright bullshit as necessary. They would not pass, say, freshman research paper standards with a C+ or higher. Just on the presumption that someone will want an example: > [@](#): > > **Any sex a woman has after drinking alcohol can be defined as rape by a man under US law** > \*The US Justice department defines rape as: > > Rape: The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.\* > _This definition very specifically requires a person’s body to be penetrated in order for it to constitute rape._ In the normal activities of heterosexual sex, then, according to the US Justice System, only a man can rape a woman, and a woman cannot rape a man. A woman would only be capable of raping a man if she were to penetrate his mouth or anus with an object, and this is not usually part of heterosexual activities. > > Furthermore, US law states that if a person is to any extent intoxicated with alcohol (drunk), they are unable to give consent. > > In previous generations it was considered normal that two people might meet at a bar or party while drunk and then have sex. However, the combination of these two legal conditions creates a situation where in every case where this now occurs, the man is automatically guilty of rape, and the woman has the right to press charges. Even if the man was passed out completely, if he had an erection, and the women sat on his erection, the man, not the woman, would be guilty of the crime. > > This is an example of what happens when the creation of laws is guided by emotional reasons rather than rational scientific thought. Laws like this open up men to grave legal risk for participating in common mutual social sexual liaisons. > > References: > > [Office of Public Affairs | Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s Definition of Rape | United States Department of Justice](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-ag-018.html) > [https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page\_id=305](https://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=305) The italicized statements are true. The underlined statements are unmitigated dogshit. That is not the only such example. It’s an embarrassing and terrifying scene, and anybody holding that up as an example of “accuracy” should be proportionally ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/39 "2019-07-26T20:30:14Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The sources themselves are perfectly solid. > > Sources that were cited: > \*\* > University of Richmond > Pew Social Trends > National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) > SAGE Journal > Research Gate > National Bureau of Economic Research > Bureau of Justice Statistics > Research Direct > Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry > BBC > University of Chicago > Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences > Stanford University > \*\* > > If we weren’t discussing incel-dom, but rather, some other psychological topic such as adolescent education or drug addiction, most Dopers would accept such sources without a second thought. IOW, the reason the sources are being rejected is not because of the sources themselves, but because of the incels citing them. Incels are lying sacks of shit with a permanent mental bias against all women and all decent men. I don’t believe for one instant that the cites say what they think they do. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/40 "2019-07-26T20:30:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If we weren’t discussing incel-dom, but rather, some other psychological topic such as adolescent education or drug addiction, most Dopers would accept such sources without a second thought. IOW, the reason the sources are being rejected is not because of the sources themselves, but because of the incels citing them. Only the ones who are shit at science. The quality of a citation, assuming it even backs up the point it’s being used to support, is not based on where it is published. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=3)