# Science says Incels are right about everything. What happens next? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677 "2019-07-26T18:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/41 "2019-07-26T20:57:09Z")
It sounds like people have a lot of preconceived biases that are preventing them from even evaluating the evidence provided. I am not an incel myself, but yet I can look at the science and review the articles and from what I’ve evaluated it has been perfectly sound. If you have any interest in how human sexuality works, you will find the information interesting at the minimum. Almost every entry comes from a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Almost all are freely available journal articles on the web if you search on Google “journal article title pdf”. You check easily if there is any distortion. At least of all the ones I’ve clicked through I have found no significant distortions. Each section includes quotes directly from the articles, for example. I am not sure what being an incel has to do with sex slaves or any other nonsense. The word incel solely means “involuntarily celibate”. There are crazy people among every group or demographic. I find this information interesting because everyone is always saying “incels are wrong about everything”, yet clearly there’s an overwhelming amount of science that actually backs them on most of what they say. My impression is now that people just don’t like incels so they don’t care if they’re right or wrong, which is being validated by many of the responses here so far. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/42 "2019-07-26T20:58:39Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > I certainly wouldn’t trust Velocity’s claims. I don’t see why not; he’s the board’s foremost scholar of inceldom. Author of a long-running apologia for the resentful fuckless fucks and their neverending pity party. One hopes that he is merely a dispassionate observer, but one wouldn’t bet one’s life on it. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/43 "2019-07-26T20:59:30Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > It sounds like people have a lot of preconceived biases that are preventing them from even evaluating the evidence provided. I am not an incel myself, but yet I can look at the science and review the articles and find they are perfectly sound. If you have any interest in how human sexuality works, you will find the information interesting at the minimum. > > Almost every entry comes from a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Almost all are freely available journal articles on the web if you search on Google “journal article title pdf”. You can see easily there is no distortion. At least of all the ones I’ve clicked through I have found no significant distortions. Each section includes quotes directly from the articles, for example. > > I am not sure what being an incel has to do with sex slaves or any other nonsense. The word incel solely means “involuntarily celibate”. What’s the end goal of accumulating all these studies? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/44 "2019-07-26T20:59:37Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > I am not an incel myself… Absolute bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/45 "2019-07-26T21:04:44Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > What’s the end goal of accumulating all these studies? I have absolutely no idea. Knowledge? Understanding? Discussion? What’s the purpose of any field of scientific study? Why did the researchers perform those studies in the first place? They’ve been rattling around in my brain ever since someone linked me to that page off Reddit. I can’t stop thinking about them. I’m not sure what to do with the information or how to feel about it. Read them for yourself and tell me if you don’t find them interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/46 "2019-07-26T21:05:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The sources themselves are perfectly solid. > > Sources that were cited: > \*\* > University of Richmond > Pew Social Trends > National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) > SAGE Journal > Research Gate > National Bureau of Economic Research > Bureau of Justice Statistics > Research Direct > Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry > BBC > University of Chicago > Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences > Stanford University > \*\* Well, I am heavily impressed. Or would be if I wasn’t familiar with the tactic of 1) citing an article and then claiming that the journal/academic institution/agency under whose auspices it appears endorses its conclusions, and 2) pointing to a cherry-picked list of articles/statistics as proof of one’s assertions while misinterpreting what those sources say, and/or ignoring a vastly greater body of research/statistics that contradict those assertions. A good example of #2 is “Miller’s Critical Vaccine Studies”, a book fawned over by the antivax crowd as impeccable Scientific Proof of their beliefs (the book’s author also claims he has communicated with extraterrestrials, but one should not doubt his bona fides on that account :dubious:). Some links to relevant articles from **Velocity** ’s list would be nice, as I also do not wish to click on the original link. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/47 "2019-07-26T21:05:07Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > [Scientific Blackpill - Incel Wiki](https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill) > > Where do we go from here? I don’t know about you, but my tubby, middle-aged, chronically-broke ass is going to go have frequent and vigorous sex with my incredibly hot partner. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/48 "2019-07-26T21:07:12Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Read them for yourself and tell me if you don’t find them interesting. I haven’t read them and I can already tell you that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/49 "2019-07-26T21:08:47Z")
I also am blessed with a partner who is brilliant, insightful, and scorching hot. Her intelligence and good taste is evidenced in many, many ways, not least of which is she occasionally peruses the Dope. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/50 "2019-07-26T21:08:51Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > It sounds like people have a lot of preconceived biases that are preventing them from even evaluating the evidence provided. Bias because of the killings, you mean? The crazy people and the shootings? Nah. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/51 "2019-07-26T21:10:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, I am heavily impressed. > > Or would be if I wasn’t familiar with the tactic of 1) citing an article and then claiming that the journal/academic institution/agency under whose auspices it appears endorses its conclusions, and 2) pointing to a cherry-picked list of articles/statistics as proof of one’s assertions while misinterpreting what those sources say, and/or ignoring a vastly greater body of research/statistics that contradict those assertions. > A good example of #2 is “Miller’s Critical Vaccine Studies”, a book fawned over by the antivax crowd as impeccable Scientific Proof of their beliefs (the book’s author also claims he has communicated with extraterrestrials, but one should not doubt his bona fides on that account :dubious:). > > Some links to relevant articles from **Velocity** ’s list would be nice, as I also do not wish to click on the original link. Did you actually read any of the articles? If you don’t want to click on the link, here I just went and looked and you can find a backed up version on [Archive.org](http://Archive.org): [https://web.archive.org/web/20190722003058/https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific\_Blackpill](https://web.archive.org/web/20190722003058/https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill) Seems to look pretty much the same as the current version from what I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/52 "2019-07-26T21:12:03Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > It sounds like people have a lot of preconceived biases that are preventing them from even evaluating the evidence provided… You nailed that on the head, and kudos to you for returning to the thread. And yes, assuming that enormous amount of text is all true or near true, agree, a very _interesting_ read. But to answer your question, where to go from here, the only alternatives I see are for straight men to find other outlets for sex than women, or forcing women to have sex with men they don’t want to- definitely opposed to the latter, not sure about the former? ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/53 "2019-07-26T21:12:51Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Bias because of the killings, you mean? The crazy people and the shootings? Nah. Well I’m not an expert on this field, so correct me if I’m wrong, but there would be two obvious counterpoints to raise: 1. There have only been 1-4 “incel killers” and their death count is far lower than that of non-virgin male mass murderers. So mass murdering seems to be an equal opportunity activity. I think the few that did go on killings were severely mentally ill with autism or schizophrenia too. Murdering is reprehensible no matter who does it IMO. 2. Some muslims blow themselves up in crowds but it doesn’t mean everyone who is muslim is a suicide bomber or has radical beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/54 "2019-07-26T21:13:48Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > The word incel solely means “involuntarily celibate”. This is, of course, false. “Incel” is a label that a specific internet subculture self-applied to itself. Like a few other self-applied labels (pro-life, men’s rights), it’s an attempt to put lipstick on a much uglier pig. Inceldom is not just a comment on your current sexual status, it is an entire worldview that includes a massive quantity of overt misogyny, sociopathy, hatred, and self-hatred, as well as endorsement of villainous acts like rape. And as a flimsy attempt to pretend their hatred has some semblance of justification, they have constructed a distorted view of reality that purports to justify their depredations. Of course you had to have suspected this already - if inceldom was just “at the moment I’m not dating anybody or succeeding at the pickup scene”, then why would it need a slew of articles cherry-picked to support its conclusions? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/55 "2019-07-26T21:15:09Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > You nailed that on the head, and kudos to you for returning to the thread. And yes, assuming that enormous amount of text is all true or near true, agree, a very interesting read. > > But to answer your question, where to go from here, the only alternatives I see are for straight men to find other outlets for sex than women, or forcing women to have sex with men they don’t want to- definitely opposed to the latter, not sure about the former? IMHO, incels generally have four options: 1. Continue the unhappy status quo forever; 2. Go abroad (not that incel-dom isn’t a thing abroad, but most of the discussions about it are about American incels; and even an ugly American is usually granted a certain ‘status’ in some foreign countries); 3. Improve themselves (depending on situation, much easier said than done - for instance, if you have 3rd-degree burn scars over half your body, that’s not cheaply or easily fixed) 4. Try to change society’s attitudes ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/56 "2019-07-26T21:15:10Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > They’ve been rattling around in my brain ever since someone linked me to that page off Reddit. [You really should stay the fuck out of those Incel forums.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/incel-toxic-brotherhood-online-misogyny_n_5b490e5fe4b0bc69a7873ff0) ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/57 "2019-07-26T21:18:33Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Well I’m not an expert on this field, so correct me if I’m wrong, but there would be two obvious counterpoints to raise: > > 1. There have only been 1-4 “incel killers” and their death count is far lower than that of non-virgin male mass murderers. So mass murdering seems to be an equal opportunity activity. I think the few that did go on killings were severely mentally ill with autism or schizophrenia too. Murdering is reprehensible no matter who does it IMO. I may not be an expert either, but ONE IS TOO FUCKING MANY. > [@](#): > > 1. Some muslims blow themselves up in crowds but it doesn’t mean everyone who is muslim is a suicide bomber or has radical beliefs. This is a thread about incels. A group defined by their radical misogyny already. We’re not talking about all virgins or all men. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/58 "2019-07-26T21:19:21Z")
Picking one bullet point at random: > [@](#): > > **More men are raped in the USA every year than women** > Most popular culture likes to pretend women are the only victims of rape. However, based on Department of Justice figures, more men are raped in the US every year once prison rapes are counted. > > According to these statistics, the number of male rapes is more than double the number of female rapes. However, advocates claim that these figures actually underestimate the number of prison rapes, particularly of juvenile inmates, which constituted 21% percent of prison rape victims in the United States according to a 2007 Bureau of Justice Statistics report. > > The public is relatively silent on the subject and little empathy, support, or advocacy is offered to these male victims of rape. > > Quotes: > > More men are raped in the U.S. than woman, according to figures that include sexual abuse in prisons. > In 2008, it was estimated 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time, according to the Department of Justice figures. > That is compared to 90,479 rape cases outside of prison. > Four per cent of prisoners said they had been sexually abused in 2011. > References: > > [More men raped in US than women when including prison sexual abuse | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html) > [Advocates Dispute Agency Finding on Sex Abuse of Juvenile InmatesJuvenile Justice Information Exchange](http://jjie.org/advocates-dispute-agency-finding-on-sex-abuse-of-juvenile-inmates/) Peer-reviewed journals, my ass. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/59 "2019-07-26T21:22:36Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > It sounds like people have a lot of preconceived biases that are preventing them from even evaluating the evidence provided. I am not an incel myself, but yet I can look at the science and review the articles and from what I’ve evaluated it has been perfectly sound. If you have any interest in how human sexuality works, you will find the information interesting at the minimum. > > Almost every entry comes from a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Almost all are freely available journal articles on the web if you search on Google “journal article title pdf”. You check easily if there is any distortion. At least of all the ones I’ve clicked through I have found no significant distortions. Each section includes quotes directly from the articles, for example. > > I am not sure what being an incel has to do with sex slaves or any other nonsense. The word incel solely means “involuntarily celibate”. There are crazy people among every group or demographic. > > I find this information interesting because everyone is always saying “incels are wrong about everything”, yet clearly there’s an overwhelming amount of science that actually backs them on most of what they say. My impression is now that people just don’t like incels so they don’t care if they’re right or wrong, which is being validated by many of the responses here so far. What do those studies say that isn’t already known about human sexual behavior and partner selection? They say that women prefer specific traits in men that have to do with physical, personality and economic attributes. Stop the fucking presses; The science is right!! So along comes a guy who is on the shallow end of the pool on all of the above attributes and thinks he should be getting banged by lingerie models every night. Because what? Because it’s not fair that he drew the short straw on the positive attributes lottery? Even so… and it’s undeniably so for some people… work on things you can improve and quit acting like a whining jackass. Or, don’t and join the incel circle jerk club and wank yourselves to death about how unfair the world is. Boo fucking hoo. Nobody owes him shit. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/60 "2019-07-26T21:23:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > By and large, yes. For instance, one part claims that white/Caucasian skin is generally considered more attractive. The cited source says as much. [Attractiveness Based Partly on Skin Color | Live Science](https://www.livescience.com/5860-attractiveness-based-partly-skin-color.html) I like that this source was explicitly picked out as being representative, because it highlight just how unlikely it is that any of the science says what the incels think it does. Incel: Look! All women like white people, so as a non-caucasion I’m doomed! Therefore I’m justified in raping people, and also in whatever other part of my twisted worldview I wish to justify by cobbling together this list of cites! Science: No, you stupid ass. The study just says there are trends. Even with the trends there are still millions of women who are just fine with your skin color - it’s your shitty, bigoted personality they can’t stand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=4)