# Science says Incels are right about everything. What happens next? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677 "2019-07-26T18:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/121 "2019-07-26T23:12:47Z")
> [@thefuture](#): > > elliot rodger went on his killing spree 2014 > [@](#): > > an incel forum for him to post in 1993 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/122 "2019-07-26T23:16:26Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Yeah but again that doesn’t really make sense since Elliot Rodger went on his killing spree before there was even an incel forum for him to post in and Alek Minassian only referenced 4chan and 4chan was based off of an equivalent Japanese site in the first place. > > So it would suggest either there’s a cultural difference as it pertains to celibacy, things are overhyped here in the west (“incel bogeymen”), or maybe Japan actually has the same problems but we don’t hear about them in the same way. Oh, I won’t say that there aren’t people who are bitter sexist misogynistic fucks straight out the gate, without any help. I mean, _somebody_ pushed it to the depths of the toilet where it now resides, and it would have to be guys like that. But also, as I previous mentioned and which you ignored because of reasons only you know, the group doubtlessly existed prior to taking on the “Incel” label. The dude posted on bodybuilding forums, you said? It’s my understanding that there’s a huge focus on appearance in that subculture too. And as for Japan, aside from the rather large cultural difference that Inceldom seems to have sprouted from english language communities, it appears that in Japan they’re getting hikikomoris, who have internalized their anxieties to the point of withdrawing from society, rather than blaming other people and hating society. Which seems significantly more mature, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/123 "2019-07-26T23:17:47Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > So if you know more about Japanese culture, why have they been able to attain such a high level of celibacy in young people without any problems? Your knowledge of Japanese culture seems to be entirely made up in your own head. Your knowledge of Japanese society seems even worse. “Without any problems?” And you think that if there were, they’d be attributable to celibacy? Not to mention things like demographics, availability of firearms, and such. If you were honestly curious, you’d shut up, read the thread, be ashamed, and go away. But you won’t, will you? Everyone knows by now that “Involuntarily celibate” is simply the stupid version of “Enthusiastically awful.” Seriously, when you decide science has decreed no one wants to have sex with you, think about another scientific theory: evolution. When the planet doesn’t want you around anymore, take the hint. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/124 "2019-07-26T23:20:35Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Just a skim told me that the study was specifically about _speed dating_. Yeah, they took 5782 speed daters and charted the women’s height requirements that the women themselves stated (min and max) and did competitor analyses on how many men would have to compete for a woman at each height. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. I did speed dating a few times and it was fun. Do you think it could have been studied a better way? This other height study showing women were happiest when the man was 8" taller than them used a sample of 52,677 people: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913000020](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913000020) But I can’t find a full text version for free and I don’t care enough to pay to read that methodology. In my experience most of the girls that were easiest to date did tend to be around 6-8" shorter than me. I’ve dated girls with closer heights but it’s never been so easy as when I’ve been that much taller myself. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/125 "2019-07-26T23:21:15Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > So incels as a group were created by women, and remain populated by women in female incel groups, but somehow all incels are hateful mass murdering misogynist men. LOL. That does not make any sense at all. [Woman behind ‘incel’ says angry men hijacked her word ‘as a weapon of war’: The woman who coined the term ‘involuntary celibate’ says she intended it as a community for lonely people, and is shocked by its misogynistic turn](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/woman-who-invented-incel-movement-interview-toronto-attack): > [@](#): > > Soon after her social life began to blossom and she handed off the site to someone she didn’t know. It would be years before she would hear the term incel again – this time as she was browsing through an issue of Mother Jones in a bookstore. > > The magazine had covered the story of Elliot Rodger, who in 2014 killed six people and wounded 14 others in California. In online posts that raged at women for rejecting his romantic advances, Rodger had described himself as an incel. > > “Holy shit,” Alana thought. “Look what I started.” > > The term – and the friendly community of lonely people she had once fostered – had morphed into a deeply misogynistic online subculture that at times called for rape or other violence. Thousands were now on incel forums, united in their belief that the modern world is unfairly stacked against heterosexual men who are awkward or unattractive. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/126 "2019-07-26T23:22:47Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > Think about another scientific theory: evolution. When the planet doesn’t want you around anymore, take the hint. I think that’s why they call it “The Blackpill.” They see it that way as well. That this is all reduceable to evolutionary biology. Most of those studies are evolutionary biology at their heart. Eg. Women want tall muscular men because once tall muscular men were needed to fight off wild beasts. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/127 "2019-07-26T23:24:09Z")
Unattractive men are unable to have sex with women. Within a few generations, unattractive people have been removed from the gene pool. Is there a…downside to this that I’m somehow missing? ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/128 "2019-07-26T23:25:48Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Woman behind ‘incel’ says angry men hijacked her word ‘as a weapon of war’: The woman who coined the term ‘involuntary celibate’ says she intended it as a community for lonely people, and is shocked by its misogynistic turn](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/woman-who-invented-incel-movement-interview-toronto-attack): I didn’t know anyone could own a word. Unless maybe a copyright or trademark. Nonetheless, female incels like Alana still exist as posted. So her legacy still exists online: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Trufemcels/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Trufemcels/) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/129 "2019-07-26T23:26:52Z")
> [@](#): > > They just need to lower their standards. [Lowered expect_aaaaaa_tions](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=lowered+expectations+madtv)! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/130 "2019-07-26T23:27:10Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Yeah, they took 5782 speed daters and charted the women’s height requirements that the women themselves stated (min and max) and did competitor analyses on how many men would have to compete for a woman at each height. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. I did speed dating a few times and it was fun. Do you think it could have been studied a better way? > > This other height study showing women were happiest when the man was 8" taller than them used a sample of 52,677 people: > > [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913000020](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886913000020) > > But I can’t find a full text version for free and I don’t care enough to pay to read that methodology. In my experience most of the girls that were easiest to date did tend to be around 6-8" shorter than me. I’ve dated girls with closer heights but it’s never been so easy as when I’ve been that much taller myself. “Easiest to date”? Out of genuine curiosity, what the fuck? How is it _hard to date_ a woman who you can look in the eye? I mean, yes, I get that there’s a vague societal notion in a couple the man should be taller than the woman. _Vague._ But (like all the other stuff in these studies), that’s just a trend thing, and there are numerous actualized counterexamples. Being a somewhat short man is not a death knell, no matter how much Incels want something other themselves that they can blame for their problems. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/131 "2019-07-26T23:28:18Z")
Getting rid of all the short people is a bonus. They got little hands and little eyes, they walk around telling great big lies. They got no reason to live. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/132 "2019-07-26T23:29:22Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Getting rid of all the short people is a bonus. All the short _men_. Presumably we’re going to slaughter all the tall women too, just to balance things out. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/133 "2019-07-26T23:31:31Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > “Easiest to date”? > > Out of genuine curiosity, what the fuck? How is it _hard to date_ a woman who you can look in the eye? > > I mean, yes, I get that there’s a vague societal notion in a couple the man should be taller than the woman. _Vague._ But (like all the other stuff in these studies), that’s just a trend thing, and there are numerous actualized counterexamples. Being a somewhat short man is not a death knell, no matter how much Incels want something other themselves that they can blame for their problems. I mean there was the most instant attraction from the girl. Her playing with her hair, batting her lashes, rocking back and forth, making innuendo. Have you never noticed any types of trends about the girls who like you most? I don’t think anecdotes outweigh statistics. One of the girls who loved me most was around my height and I once had a girl much taller than me “fall in love with me” (told everyone this) but I never ended up dating her for other reasons. Anecdotes and outliers don’t change or invalidate the data. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/134 "2019-07-26T23:32:16Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > I think that’s why they call it “The Blackpill.” They see it that way as well. That this is all reduceable to evolutionary biology. Most of those studies are evolutionary biology at their heart. Eg. Women want tall muscular men because once tall muscular men were needed to fight off wild beasts. Again, even if true, so? What’s next? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/135 "2019-07-26T23:32:56Z")
Nah, tall women are an evolutionary _advance._. They can get the premium products off the top shelves at the grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/136 "2019-07-26T23:33:53Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > I didn’t know anyone could own a word. Unless maybe a copyright or trademark. Nonetheless, female incels like Alana still exist as posted. So her legacy still exists online: > > [Reddit - Dive into anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/Trufemcels/) Do you practice deliberately missing points or does it just come natural? ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/137 "2019-07-26T23:36:26Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Again, even if true, so? What’s next? That was my question in the OP exactly. If I knew the answer, I wouldn’t have asked. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/138 "2019-07-26T23:38:05Z")
Man, I love these threads that have the one _schlemiel_ is them that go so fast you can’t keep up. I’ve banged all sizes of gorgeous chicks. The tall ones were great, the medium size were great, and the short ones were especially great. I guess you could call me “Chad!” And in the morning, they made breakfast! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/139 "2019-07-26T23:40:01Z")
And I’m talking fresh fruit, homemade biscuits, and caviar omelettes. None of that cold cereal shit. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/140 "2019-07-26T23:40:07Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > I mean there was the most instant attraction from the girl. Her playing with her hair, batting her lashes, rocking back and forth, making innuendo. Have you never noticed any types of trends about the girls who like you most? I don’t ‘prowl’. The three women I’ve dated were all shorter than me, but that’s probably just because I’m moderately tall, at 6’1" - that’s seven inches taller than the american female average height. Are you, perhaps, somewhat tall too? Maybe most of the females that reciprocated your attentions were shorter than you because most of the females you _met_ were shorter than you. > [@TheFuture](#): > > I don’t think anecdotes outweigh statistics. One of the girls who loved me most was around my height and I once had a girl much taller than me “fall in love with me” (told everyone this) but I never ended up dating her for other reasons. > > Anecdotes and outliers don’t change or invalidate the data. They sure as fuck invalidate the Incel worldview, though. The Incel worldview is that the deck is so stacked against them that _they have no chance_. Even one single counterexample blows their beliefs to shreds. They pretend this is false, and keep citing data that manifestly, explicity, and _comletely_ doesn’t support their conclusions of doom, because a bitter inferiority complex doesn’t work if you’re not doomed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=8)