# Science says Incels are right about everything. What happens next? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677 "2019-07-26T18:11:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/141 "2019-07-26T23:40:28Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Do you practice deliberately missing points or does it just come natural? Your notion that “all incels are hateful misogynists” is so easily disprovable it’s ridiculous. Generally speaking, if you phrase a sentence about groups of people and who they are as people with “all \_\_\_\_ are \_\_\_\_” you’re not going to win a debate on the veracity of that statement. Because then all anyone has to do is provide a counterexample and you’ve been proven wrong. I’ve provided male examples from the BBC documentary, from female incel groups, and you yourself have provided the female who started the “incel” movement, all of whom disprove that the name “incel” must necessarily imply what you suggest it should. You could say “some \_\_\_\_ are \_\_\_” or even “most \_\_\_ are \_\_\_” if you believe that to be true and we can have a debate. But if you say “all \_\_\_ are \_\_\_” you’ve lost by definition and revealed yourself as an ideologue not interested in nuanced discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/142 "2019-07-26T23:47:45Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > And I’m talking fresh fruit, homemade biscuits, and caviar omelettes. None of that cold cereal shit. I love a man with a well stocked fridge. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/143 "2019-07-26T23:48:36Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Her playing with her hair, batting her lashes, rocking back and forth, making innuendo. Are you sure that isn’t Tourette’s? ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/144 "2019-07-26T23:51:46Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Are you sure that isn’t Tourette’s? lmao :smack: 😃 So I’ve been doing it wrong all these years. Gotta stop picking up girls from psychiatric wards. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/145 "2019-07-26T23:55:41Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > I love a man with a well stocked fridge. Hey, baby. Want to come over, spin a little Barry White, and check out my “well stocked fridge?” ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/146 "2019-07-26T23:57:47Z")
See, if all those incels knew about Barry White, they’d have the Victoria’s Secret models tripping ‘em and beating them to the floor. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/147 "2019-07-27T00:02:12Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > See, if all those incels knew about Barry White, they’d have the Victoria’s Secret models tripping ‘em and beating them to the floor. Being tripped and then getting a beatdown? Sounds painful. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/148 "2019-07-27T00:07:19Z")
TWO _schlemiels._ G’night. I’m in the middle of a good book. And my gorgeous wife will probably want to have mind-blowing sex. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/149 "2019-07-27T00:10:19Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > TWO _schlemiels._ From the Shotz Brewery? ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/150 "2019-07-27T00:17:07Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I don’t ‘prowl’. > > The three women I’ve dated were all shorter than me, but that’s probably just because I’m moderately tall, at 6’1" - that’s seven inches taller than the american female average height. > > Are you, perhaps, somewhat tall too? Maybe most of the females that reciprocated your attentions were shorter than you because most of the females you _met_ were shorter than you. > > They sure as fuck invalidate the Incel worldview, though. The Incel worldview is that the deck is so stacked against them that _they have no chance_. Even one single counterexample blows their beliefs to shreds. > > They pretend this is false, and keep citing data that manifestly, explicity, and _comletely_ doesn’t support their conclusions of doom, because a bitter inferiority complex doesn’t work if you’re not doomed. I’m not tall at all. You’re lucky for that height you have. So when I say they were 6-8" shorter than me, they were pretty short girls. That I can recall, I’ve never had that kind of instant attraction from girls closer to my height. But again, that’s just personal experience. I think science \> personal experience. In this case, it just happens the science seems to match my experience. If there’s any one thing I believe it’s that there are no absolutes in life. Science for example is not about absolutes. It’s about probabilities. Even scientific conclusions are typically stated with a P value meant to signal the probability that the conclusion the data draws is valid. On the other hand, what is or isn’t “hopeless” is entirely subjective. I can’t comment on one person’s threshold for hopelessness vs. another’s, because that likely depends on their entire lifetime of experience. Almost certainly, if you’ve spent your whole life getting bullied, rejected, isolated, say due to autism or some other incurable problem, and then you try online dating and only get ignored and no matches, you’re going to have a lower threshold to declare it “hopeless” and give up than someone who had a great upbringing and happy life up to that point. I can certainly say hopelessness is not a pleasant feeling and if the current culture is leading more and more young isolated men to feel hopeless that is likely not ideal for those men or society as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/151 "2019-07-27T00:41:48Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > I can certainly say hopelessness is not a pleasant feeling and if the current culture is leading more and more young isolated men to feel hopeless that is likely not ideal for those men or society as a whole. We can see them. They discourage each other and chase all hope out of the room, that’s the problem. You should check it out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/152 "2019-07-27T00:51:37Z")
She was only the banker’s daughter, but there was _substantial_ penalty for early withdrawal. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/153 "2019-07-27T00:52:27Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > We can see them. They discourage each other and chase all hope out of the room, that’s the problem. You should check it out. I think that’s putting the cart before the horse. Or as another example, it’s a chicken and egg problem. Let’s take an autistic man for example, since both the two “incel killers” were autistic men. Autistic men get bullied like crazy growing up. They have high sex drives and want relationships. Women reject them massively. People in general reject them massively. There is no cure for their problem. According to one citation there, autistic men have 10 times as many suicidal thoughts and are 7.55 times more likely to die from suicide than normal men: > **[Scientific Blackpill](https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Autistic_men_have_10_times_as_many_suicidal_thoughts_as_normal_men)** > > The Scientific Blackpill is about understanding the nature of human social and sexual behavior with a particular focus on evolutionary psychological perspectives... That’s not autistic “incels” in the way people here are trying to characterize incels - that’s just regular autistic men who are failing horribly at life and being left isolated, depressed, alone, and suicidal. There’s no “incel forum” causing that - it’s just life. Ditto with the study saying short men have double the suicide rate of tall men: > **[Scientific Blackpill](https://incels.wiki/w/Scientific_Blackpill#Short_men_have_twice_the_suicide_rate_of_tall_men)** > > The Scientific Blackpill is about understanding the nature of human social and sexual behavior with a particular focus on evolutionary psychological perspectives... It’s not as dramatic an effect, but anything that doubles your risk of blowing your head off in life should be considered significant. Again no “incel forum” is involved in that effect. I don’t know if incel forums make incels feel better or worse about their situation. Probably if there is a discouragement of improvement that is not good, but on the other hand it probably makes them feel less alone and gives them a place to vent. I would rather they vent their anger in Internet posts than in real life. I’m not sure what society would otherwise intend to offer men like this. Autism is also on the rise, FYI: [https://www.hcs.harvard.edu/hghr/online/autism-on-the-rise-a-global-perspective/](https://www.hcs.harvard.edu/hghr/online/autism-on-the-rise-a-global-perspective/) Maybe some of that is overdiagnosis, but likely it is rising as well from aging parents having babies past their most fertile years. I have read increased paternal age is associated with higher risk of autism for example. So what are we going to do with all these people? What real actual solutions can society offer to these problems? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/154 "2019-07-27T00:59:38Z")
They could solve this by issuing mandatory punch-cards to women. After a certain number of sexes with men that they find attractive, they would be required to sex with a short, ugly, poor, autistic Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/155 "2019-07-27T01:00:24Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > That does not make any sense at all. _Now_ you see that as a problem? > [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > G’night. I’m in the middle of a good book. And my gorgeous wife will probably want to have mind-blowing sex. No doubt. But I guess she’s going to have to settle for sex with you. {I kid, I kid! You know you walked into that one.} By the way, my wife says I’m cute. I like to think I’m handsome, but since “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”, I’m going to have to accept her judgment on the matter. And most people find her to be gorgeous. I guess the “Incel” world-view is a crock, hey? ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/156 "2019-07-27T01:03:43Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > They could solve this by issuing mandatory punch-cards to women. After a certain number of sexes with men that they find attractive, they would be required to sex with a short, ugly, poor, autistic Asian. lmao. I’m sure the short, ugly, poor, autistic Asian man would be cool with it. Seriously though I think sex work should be legalized as it could be therapeutic. If a woman wants to do that and she is being paid well, why does the law say she can’t? In Britain they allow sex workers to service disabled men under government programs: > **[Adult worker who charges for sex with disabled people discusses UK's last taboo](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/sex-worker-disabled-people-taboo-10792163)** > > Katie Price and Kathy Lette said they'd consider hiring a sex worker, like Marianne, for their autistic sons That’s not a total solution but it might help a bit. Most autistic guys ARE pretty disabled according to this data. Why should disabled people be barred from even paying to experience sex or intimacy with someone who is agreeable to provide it for a fee? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/157 "2019-07-27T01:13:59Z")
> [@TheFuture](#): > > Seriously though I think sex work should be legalized as it could be therapeutic. There are legal brothels in Nevada. There are legal brothels in Europe. It’s not like they don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![TheFuture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@TheFuture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFuture)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/158 "2019-07-27T01:21:27Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > There are legal brothels in Nevada. > There are legal brothels in Europe. > > It’s not like they don’t exist. Sure but that’s not then accessible to most men. The Mirror article on disabled men and sex workers also talks a lot about how many of the men are repeat customers. ie. The sex workers provide a long term surrogacy for the disabled men (who would almost certainly be involuntarily celibate on account of their disabilities without those sex workers). I don’t think most men want to just have sex once then say, “Well that’s it, I’m good for life. My sex drive and drive for female affection has been fully satisfied.” I think especially for autistic men who are covered in that article you need a long term kind of process because I think the thing autistic men want the most in addition to just sex is a sense of human connection, since that’s what they’re least capable of establishing. Highly intelligent AI sex dolls could do this one day but it will be a long time until those exist in any practical sense. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/159 "2019-07-27T01:33:59Z")
Wow, I go out to dinner and this Gish Gallop is still going on. Good thing I like trainwrecks. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677/160 "2019-07-27T01:34:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > They could solve this by issuing mandatory punch-cards to women. After a certain number of sexes with men that they find attractive, they would be required to sex with a short, ugly, poor, autistic Asian. Now why aren’t you running for President!?! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/science-says-incels-are-right-about-everything-what-happens-next/837677.md?page=9)