# Scientific evidence of God's existence **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043 "2008-10-29T03:11:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/121 "2008-11-01T07:38:27Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > We can’t cure aids yet, but we could stop it’s spread and extend life. War is our own damn fault, no outside force makes us fight. So is poverty. Not if we are created. Then it’s the fault of the designer. We are simply poorly made for living as civilized beings. > [@mbedell](#): > > You stated, "Well, you’re wrong; there’s no such thing as “spirit”. This is where the conversation ends my friend. If you don’t believe that you even have a spirit then everything I have said is superfluous. There is an “eternal” world beyond this world. It exists whether you believe it exists or not. Prove it. Or provide at least some evidence for it. For that matter, produce some evidence that it’s even POSSIBLE. You won’t, of course, because you can’t. All the evidence is that there’s no such thing as “spirit”, and no afterlife of any kind. To turn your line back on you, it **doesn’t** exist, whether you believe it or not. > [@mbedell](#): > > I just hope you dont have to have a near-death experience, similar to Lekatt, to find out before you run out of time. A near death experience is just a hallucination. > [@mbedell](#): > > Not sure what your age is, but your perspective may change as you mature and and get closer to your own mortality. I hope you a have a very long and fullfilling life. I do man. I just need to put this in perspective for you and others since other members hold your opinions in high regard. I will leave you wit this. Do you have a girlfriend or wife? I presum you love here. Do you desire for that love to continue after death? Do you believe that love continues after death? Nothing continues after death. And your emotional blackmail is irrelevant; my or your desire for an afterlife won’t make one exist. it either does, or does not; and the evidence is that it doesn’t. > [@mbedell](#): > > I have to ask what the purpose of this “debate” thread is. What are we debating?? All or most of you on this board have already made up your mind that God does not exist and take pride in it. Well, the majority of the world disagrees with you. Then the majority of the world is wrong, and hardly for the first time. Reality is not a matter of public opinion. > [@mbedell](#): > > As somebody eluded to here, religion cannot be “forced” on you. People do it all the time. Christianity got to where it is because of it’s willingness to spread itself by force, often with a genocidal level of violence. > [@mbedell](#): > > There has to be “willingness” or a “desire” to find God. I cant make it any clearer than that. You cant possibly have a discussion about God without opening your mind AND heart. The heart “transcends” logic. You will never get to “know” or “understand” the Christian God by using classical logic. It will never happen. Because believing in God is foolish. You need to deny logic and reason, you need to turn your mind off to believe. Religion negates what makes humans humans and not animals, the intellect. And I understand the Christian God just fine. It’s an extremely dangerous and infectious delusion. A mind-virus that has infected millions of people and killed millions more. An anti-life, anti-human, death worshiping, happiness hating, hatred and malice spewing infectious madness. And in my opinion, the single greatest evil in all of human history. If I was given the chance to change one thing in history, preventing the appearance of Christianity would be it. It represents and promotes everything I despise. And that’s just to make it clear to you, that not everyone buys the idea that Christianity is good, or even harmless. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/122 "2008-11-01T09:31:36Z")
> [@The Tao's Revenge](#): > > We can’t cure aids yet, but we could stop it’s spread and extend life. And we all know how excited the “beauty of God’s creation” folks are about that. > [@mbedell](#): > > You stated, "Well, you’re wrong; there’s no such thing as “spirit”. This is where the conversation ends my friend. If you don’t believe that you even have a spirit then everything I have said is superfluous. Then **why are you in this thread**? Are you aware what this thread is about? This is not “Can we make up some wishy-washy bullshit to justify a belief system with no real case to make for itself”, this is “Scientific evidence of God’s existence”. Do you understand what that means? > [@mbedell](#): > > I have to ask what the purpose of this “debate” thread is. What are we debating?? OK, apparently not. You should try reading before you do any more writing on this Board. It’s not about whether or not we find your opinions objectionable; plenty of people here probably agree with you. It’s that you are diving into the pool and claiming that it is a hot tub, and then getting indignant that other people aren’t going along with it. Wake up, man. You don’t seem that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/123 "2008-11-01T09:46:12Z")
> [@mbedell](#): > > 1. Our divine God can do WHATEVER wants. He is our creator. Do you think it’s okay for a father to rape his young daughter? > [@](#): > > 1. God doesnt NEED to show you evidence. If he provided evidence on command that would justify you asking for it. Can you see how arrogant your statements are? This is the funny part, your statements are arrogant. It’s beyond arrogant to assume that god exists because you want him to. It’s childish stupidity. Just because you want to not end when you die, you buy into a bullshit theory with zero evidence. Doesn’t that sound like the response of someone gullible, arrogant and willfully ignorant? > [@](#): > > We are “vessels” gentleman. No, we’re animals. And you’re just a hairless monkey with a bunch of silly ideas. At least that’s what I assume, based on the evidence for evolution we’ve amassed as a species. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/124 "2008-11-01T12:37:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not if we are created. Then it’s the fault of the designer. We are simply poorly made for living as civilized beings. When you do something wrong do you blame it on your parents for poorly raising you or do you suck it up and try to learn from it? > [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > And we all know how excited the “beauty of God’s creation” folks are about that. Yea they’re something I shouldn’t say in GD because it isn’t very nice. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/125 "2008-11-01T13:29:51Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > When you do something wrong do you blame it on your parents for poorly raising you or do you suck it up and try to learn from it? My parents didn’t design my instincts, or preselect my limitations and flaws. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/126 "2008-11-01T13:57:09Z")
**mbedell** , can I ask you an honest question? Why do you believe the things you believe? Presumably, you don’t believe _everything_ that anyone tells you. So you must have some way of distinguishing between ‘good’ ideas, those that have the potential to be true, and wrong ideas that are false. So how do you make that distinction? Most of us (on the Dope at least) analyze the idea by studying the relevant evidence. That, or use logic or reasoning to arrive at the idea starting from things that we already know to be true, things which are hopefully already supported by evidence. So if you dismiss evidence and reason, what else have you got? Do you just believe what ‘feels’ right? I’m honestly curious. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/127 "2008-11-01T14:37:07Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > When you do something wrong do you blame it on your parents for poorly raising you or do you suck it up and try to learn from it? Well, whether you do or not, isn’t it a concrete sign of maturity that you eventually don’t _need_ your parents any more? They could both die and you could still go on to live for several more decades as a stable and fulfilled individual, perhaps raising children of your own who will eventually be independent of _you_ and so forth. By the “God as parent” analogy, atheists are independent adults, while believers are still clinging to apron strings and living in the basement. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/128 "2008-11-01T18:04:28Z")
Everytime there is a discussion of God the posts go in every direction. Why? Are you really looking outside yourself to find and/or define something called God? Jesus said: “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” …and He knew what He was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/129 "2008-11-01T19:36:32Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Jesus said: > > “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” > > …and He knew what He was talking about. So Jesus basically admitted that Heaven is a figment of people’s imaginations? What is the difference between an unobservable “Kingdom of God” that is located _nowhere except in our minds_, and no Kingdom of God at all? Yeah, based on that, I’d say Jesus knew what he was talking about all right. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/130 "2008-11-01T19:58:01Z")
Can those of us trying to board the train to Loopytown take a second to observe the thread title one more time? I’ll C/P it here one more time, in all caps this time so it’s easy to read: SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE If you have nothing to add to the topic of SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE, may I humbly request that you get lost? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/131 "2008-11-01T21:27:04Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Everytime there is a discussion of God the posts go in every direction. Why? > > Are you really looking outside yourself to find and/or define something called God? > > Jesus said: > > “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” > > …and He knew what He was talking about. Because he was selling a lie and knew it, most likely. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/132 "2008-11-01T21:41:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, whether you do or not, isn’t it a concrete sign of maturity that you eventually don’t _need_ your parents any more? They could both die and you could still go on to live for several more decades as a stable and fulfilled individual, perhaps raising children of your own who will eventually be independent of _you_ and so forth. > > By the “God as parent” analogy, atheists are independent adults, while believers are still clinging to apron strings and living in the basement. That’s the point I was making. You’re responsible for your self. Just about everyone screws up and needs help sometimes, and sometimes people just have bad luck. The thing of it is though it’s you at the helm. It’s not your parents, it’s not some god entity. You choose what you do everyday. The wonder of the human mind is that exists at all. Thought is a truely wondrous thing when you really think about it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/133 "2008-11-01T22:14:14Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Can those of us trying to board the train to Loopytown take a second to observe the thread title one more time? I’ll C/P it here one more time, in all caps this time so it’s easy to read: > > SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE > SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE > SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE > SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE > SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE > > If you have nothing to add to the topic of SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OF GOD’S EXISTENCE, may I humbly request that you get lost? Can I humbly suggest decaf?😛 Well inline with the thread. If presented with a particle that produces the Koran somehow I’d need further research. Just because something can manipulate particles doesn’t mean it’s god. Off the top of my head other possible explanations: error hoax someone figured out how to finely control particles (which would fall under hoax) Which does Occam’s razor pick? Although the 3rd one would be pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/134 "2008-11-01T22:41:49Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Which does Occam’s razor pick? Although the 3rd one would be pretty cool. Indeed. That’d be Molecule Man territory. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/135 "2008-11-01T22:47:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Indeed. That’d be Molecule Man territory. Still more likely then god. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/136 "2008-11-01T23:21:36Z")
> [@mbedell](#): > > I have to ask what the purpose of this “debate” thread is. What are we debating?? All or most of you on this board have already made up your mind that God does not exist and take pride in it. Well, the majority of the world disagrees with you. As somebody eluded to here, religion cannot be “forced” on you. Your correct, that just drives people away. There has to be “willingness” or a “desire” to find God. I cant make it any clearer than that. You cant possibly have a discussion about God without opening your mind AND heart. The heart “transcends” logic. You will never get to “know” or “understand” the Christian God by using classical logic. It will never happen. The existance of God does defy all logic, especially classical logic, but maybe hip-hop logic can get down to the bottom of this. > [@](#): > > 1. Our divine God can do WHATEVER wants. He is our creator. > 2. God doesnt NEED to show you evidence. If he provided evidence on command that would justify you asking for it. Can you see how arrogant your statements are? > > We are “vessels” gentleman. How do you know God is a He? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/137 "2008-11-02T01:05:01Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > So Jesus basically admitted that Heaven is a figment of people’s imaginations? What is the difference between an unobservable “Kingdom of God” that is located _nowhere except in our minds_, and no Kingdom of God at all? Yeah, based on that, I’d say Jesus knew what he was talking about all right. This not what He said, just forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/138 "2008-11-02T01:19:06Z")
The question itself is tendentious, and not really valid, because answering it requires accepting the possibility that such a thing might be possible. It’s like asking me if I’d believe that aliens are stealing my luggage if someone could produce a film of an alien stealing my luggage. Uh, okay. Then the questioner gets to believe that my answer somehow means something profound about the possible existence of aliens with luggage fetishes. So if I say yes, it’s seen as a confirmation as to the possible existence of God. If I answer no, my answer can be used to validate the notion that athiests are just as pig headed and refuse to accept evidence, so it’s almost a religious belief. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/139 "2008-11-02T01:50:55Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Off the top of my head other possible explanations: > error > hoax > someone figured out how to finely control particles (which would fall under hoax) > Which does Occam’s razor pick? Hoax, I’d say. It’s awful systematic to be an error ( although possibly they screwed up and accidentally created a multibillion dollar AM radio receiver that’s picking up some preacher ). And hoaxes are a lot more common than Molecule Men. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043/140 "2008-11-02T02:44:44Z")
In any case, I’d like to just reiterate that even if some vibrating molecule happened to spell out the Koran in Morse Code or whatever, this says absolutely nothing about whether or not the Koran is actually true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientific-evidence-of-gods-existence/470043.md?page=8)