# Scientists Learn Why Women Go Through Menopause by Studying Killer Whales **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 17, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381 "2017-01-17T12:24:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/1 "2017-01-17T12:24:29Z")
That’s the headline on a Yahoo news item. It’s clearly designed to make you click on it. It worked. Some interesting stuff: > [@](#): > > Scientists allege in a recent study that menopause, when females no longer produce eggs to bear children, was an evolutionary development that helps end conflict between mothers and daughters. > > In the study, the researchers state that menopause helps alleviate strife between females and keeps them from being a sexual threat to their offspring. > > The study was conducted at the University of Exeter and examined one of only three species on the planet that undergo menopause — killer whales. > > … > Essentially, Croft and his team believe that if female killer whales were able to continue to bear offspring, it would harm the survival of the whale pod group. Older female whales are seen as leaders and caretakers, sharing their food and how to survive. > > The study’s co-author, Dr. Daniel Franks of the University of York, added, “Our new work shows that if an old female killer whale reproduces her late-life offspring suffer from being out-competed by her grandchildren. This, together with her investment in helping her grandchildren, can explain the evolution of menopause.” So they studied killer whales not because of any temperamental; similarities with women undergoing menopause, but because killer whales are one of only three species that undergoes menopause – something I was unaware of. But I think a popularization like this needs to have a few more dots connected. I confess that it’s not altogether clear to me why having mothers ceasing reproduction so as not to compete with their daughters is a survival trait. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/2 "2017-01-17T12:53:11Z")
I don’t understand why they conclude that the late child would be “out competed” by its nephews. Why would they? Maybe if the grandma found herself with a baby of her own, she’d focus more on that one and less on the grandkids. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/3 "2017-01-17T13:12:03Z")
Sounds like another lame ass study conclusion that may not actually be true. Wasn’t there a study that concluded that the reason women have orgasms is so they’ll lay back and zone out for a while, and not go running around right away, and cause all the baby juice to dribble out? By the way, what’s the third species to get menopause? ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/4 "2017-01-17T13:28:18Z")
Short-finned pilot whales What is the third mammal that doesn’t go through menopause, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/5 "2017-01-17T18:49:44Z")
> [@CalMeachum](#): > > But I think a popularization like this needs to have a few more dots connected. I confess that it’s not altogether clear to me why having mothers ceasing reproduction so as not to compete with their daughters is a survival trait. The logic probably goes something like this: You’ve got two female whales, one that undergoes menopause and one that doesn’t. Both females have daughters. Let’s say the daughters from the menopausal mother (MM) have inherited her genes for menopause. The daughters of the non-MM, accordingly, lack those genes. The daughters have babies. MM is able to help in raising her grandchildren (who also have inherited her menopause genes) because she’s isn’t preoccupied with raising her own babies. These babies are more likely to live long enough to reproduce on their own, thus propagating those menopause genes. non-MM is not able to help in the care of her grandkids, because she is chasing after her own water rats. Thus they are more likely to die off. After millions of years, all existing whales are descendants of MM and thus, undergo menopause. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/6 "2017-01-17T19:03:22Z")
Ask any woman - we go thru menopause so we can get a break. I’m closing in on 63 - you think I want to be dealing with a baby at this stage of my life? It’s got nothing to do with my daughter and any kids she may have. It’s got to do with: I raised my kid. Now it’s my turn for MEEEE!!! Maybe this is a serious, legitimate study, but it seems nonsensical to me. But what do I know - I’m just a tired old engineer. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/7 "2017-01-17T20:29:11Z")
😕 I thought all mammals underwent some form of menopause. It’s really it’s just humans and whales (& not simians). ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/8 "2017-01-17T21:00:55Z")
I’m moderately pissed off that scientists are willing to put in thought on behalf of whales but not actual human women. Having said that, the real question is, why for these species do females outlive breeding age? That unmasks the sexual competition theory as the piece of bass-ackwards nonsense it is. Females in these species outlive breeding age because the young of these species require a ton of bringing-up, is more like it, and the females of breeding age need help. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/9 "2017-01-17T21:17:54Z")
There was an article on this in today’s Science Times. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/10 "2017-01-17T21:52:22Z")
> [@](#): > > … menopause helps alleviate strife between females and keeps them from being a sexual threat to their offspring. it’s obvious that these scientists have never watched any of the “Real Housewives” documentaries… ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/11 "2017-01-17T22:04:17Z")
Because female mammals over 45 are fed the fuck up and having been tolerant for 45 years we are liable to snap like a twig and take the entire pod w/ us the next time our young are surrounded by nutritious krill but complain they’re hungry for food they ‘really like’. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/12 "2017-01-18T23:32:50Z")
I think they are viewing the question from the wrong angle. The question shouldn’t be why a species goes through menopause, but why would a species continue to live after it was no longer able to pass its genes on directly. Then you can talk about how a female that lives past her child-bearing years still improves the chances of her genes surviving. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/13 "2017-01-19T00:23:10Z")
Must be convenient to have hot flashes when you live in cold water ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/14 "2017-01-19T00:36:29Z")
So chimpanzees and gorillas don’t go through menopause? I didn’t know that. Can’t say I ever thought about it. Any ideas as to when it developed in humans? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/15 "2017-01-19T00:53:03Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#): > > Must be convenient to have hot flashes when you live in cold water You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But when the heat comes from under your skin it isn’t the same sensation. IANAKW, btw; but I had hot flashes in the winter and in my freezing cold workplace. I went from burning up and sweating, flushed to chilled in record time. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/16 "2017-01-19T03:50:21Z")
I’m curious as to why they didn’t look to non-menopausal species. For instance, coyotes usually have only one female in the pack having litters. The others hunt and help bring up the little ones. Only if they pack is under survival stress do the other females start having litters. I think it is more about overall survival rather than sexual competition unless too much competition lessens overall survival. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/17 "2017-01-19T13:17:59Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Because female mammals over 45 are fed the fuck up and having been tolerant for 45 years we are liable to snap like a twig and take the entire pod w/ us the next time our young are surrounded by nutritious krill but complain they’re hungry for food they ‘really like’. /threadwin ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/18 "2017-01-19T14:37:25Z")
So if the women don’t study killer whales, they won’t go through menopause? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/19 "2017-01-19T16:46:44Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > … Then you can talk about how a female that lives past her child-bearing years still improves the chances of her genes surviving. The pack of wolves will pull down and eat the elderly because they’re easier to catch than the young. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381/20 "2017-01-19T17:12:23Z")
It’s probably not a coincidence that all three mammals that have menopause are apex predators. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-learn-why-women-go-through-menopause-by-studying-killer-whales/777381.md?page=2)