# Scientists recreate Out-of-Body Experience **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807 "2007-08-24T19:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/221 "2007-09-02T02:13:01Z")
More good study material, the evidence mounts. [http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/whoswho/vanLommel.htm](http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/whoswho/vanLommel.htm) > [@](#): > > For decades, extensive research has been done to localize memories inside the brain, so far without success. In connection with the hypothesis that consciousness and memories are stored inside the brain the question also arises how a non-material activity such as concentrated attention or thinking can correspond with a visible (material) reaction in the form of a measurable electrical, magnetic and chemical activity at a certain place in the brain. Different mental activities give rise to changing patterns of activity in different parts of the brain. This has been shown in neurophysiology through EEG, magneto-encephalogram (MEG) and at present also through magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and positron emission tomography (PET-scan). (9-11) Also an increase in cerebral blood flow is observed during such a non-material activity like thinking (12). It is also not well understood how it is to be explained that in a sensory experiment following a physical sensation the person involved in the test stated that he was aware (conscious) of the sensation a few thousands of a second following the stimulation, while the subject’s brain showed that neuronal adequacy wasn’t achieved until after a full 500 msec. following the sensation. This experiment has led to the so-called delay-and-antedating hypothesis (13). > > … > > There is a continuous exchange of objective information by means of electromagnetic fields (real photons) for radio, TV, mobile telephone, or laptop computer. We are unaware of the innumerable amounts of electromagnetic fields that constantly, day and night, exist around us and through us as well as through structures like walls and buildings. We only become aware of these electromagnetic informational fields the moment we use our mobile telephone or by switching on our radio, TV or laptop. What we receive is not inside the instrument, nor in the components, but thanks to the receiver the information from the electromagnetic fields becomes observable to our senses and hence perception occurs in our consciousness. The voice we hear in our telephone is not inside the telephone. The concert we hear in our radio is transmitted to our radio. The images and music we hear and see on TV is transmitted to our TV set. The internet is not located inside our laptop. We can receive at about the same time what is transmitted with the speed of light from a distance of some hundreds or thousands of miles. And if we switch off the TV set, the reception disappears, but the transmission continues. The information transmitted remains present within the electromagnetic fields. The connection has been interrupted, but it has not vanished and can still be received elsewhere by using another TV set. Again, we do not realize us the thousands of telephone calls, the hundreds of radio and TV transmissions, as well as the internet, coded as electromagnetic fields, that exist around us and through us. > > Could our brain be compared with the TV set that electromagnetic waves (photons) receives and transforms into image and sound, as well as with the TV camera that image and sound transforms into electromagnetic waves (photons)? This electromagnetic radiation holds the essence of all information, but is only conceivable to our senses by suited instruments like camera and TV set. > > The informational fields of our consciousness and of our memories, both evaluating by our experiences and by the informational imput from our sense organs during our lifetime, are present around us as electrical and/or magnetic fields [possible virtual photons? (18)], and these fields only become available to our waking consciousness through our functioning brain and other cells of our body. > > So we need a functioning brain to receive our consciousness into our waking consciousness. And as soon as the function of brain has been lost, like in clinical death or in brain death, with iso-electricity on the EEG, memories and consciousness do still exist, but the reception ability is lost. People can experience their consciousness outside their body, with the possibility of perception out and above their body, with identity, and with heightened awareness, attention, well-structured thought processes, memories and emotions. And they also can experience their consciousness in a dimension where past, present and future exist at the same moment, without time and space, and can be experienced as soon as attention has been directed to it (life review and preview), and even sometimes they come in contact with the “fields of consciousness” of deceased relatives. And later they can experience their conscious return into their body. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/222 "2007-09-02T03:52:19Z")
I’m going to regret getting involved in this, but I read van Lommel’s _Lancet_ paper and I’m shocked that they published it. Because it’s crap. I’m not going to go into a point-by-point, but the methods were apparently made up as they went along, and the interpretation of the results was heavily biased, IMO. But let’s assume that van Lommel’s theory is correct, that consciousness is an EM signal of some sort that the brain tunes into and which exists independently of the brain. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/223 "2007-09-02T04:12:39Z")
Missed my edit window; sorry: I’m going to regret getting involved in this, but I read van Lommel’s _Lancet_ paper and I’m shocked that they published it. Because it’s crap. I’m not going to go into a point-by-point, but the methods were apparently made up as they went along, and the interpretation of the results was heavily biased in favor of van Lommel’s theories, IMO. Just one example: van Lommel follows up at 2 years with only 37 of the 282 patients who denied NDE at the initial interview. Four of these 37 patients now claim an NDE. van Lommel states that this is only 1% of patients, when in truth it is 10% of the patients _that he was able to follow up on_. And rather than question whether this 10% new NDE claim is because of ‘false memories’, he takes them at their word and assumes that the first interview was “too soon”. But let’s assume that van Lommel’s theory is correct, that consciousness is an EM signal of some sort that the brain tunes into and which exists independently of the brain. If I close my eyes, I perceive blackness. If my eyes are removed, I am permanently blind. Yet if I have an OBE, supposedly I can see things. Why do I need eyes to see when I am conscious, but not when I am having an OBE or NDE? Why is _anybody_ blind or deaf, since these are apparently phenomena that do not ‘really’ require functioning body structures? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/224 "2007-09-02T04:48:38Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] While you may set up something like you state there are problems with it. One is when one is given the opportunity to have true understanding of life (though a very small and incomplete part of it, the part God wants to show us at that time for His purpose, not ours) things like reading some pictures on the ceiling seem very unimportant. The second reason, which is the reason why this won’t happen is that God has already stated He will frustrate such efforts. [/QUOTE] Frankly, I have no idea what this tangent is all about. The topic of the thread is Out of Body Experiences. In some (not quantified) number of cases that persons have reported Near Death Experiences, some (further not quantified) subset of those persons also report having experienced OBEs. However, OBEs have been reported on numerous occasions when no NDE has been reported. Even if God has determined that we will never discover a scientific explanation for NDEs, (a point you have failed to establish at even the most basic level), I see no reason to believe that God has ordained that we cannot know whether an OBE has occurred. Where in Scripture has God made any statement that humans are prohibited from discovering that they have had experiences outside the body? The fact that Paul was unsure that an acquaintance had or did not have an OBE hardly establishes that God has prohibited all other people from knowing whether an OBE has occurred. Even if God had made such a statement–a point that I doubt is supported by any serious analysis of Scripture–simply discovering that OBEs are real would not violate that prohibition, as it would still not provide the mechanism. The point was raised that there is no way to prove an OBE was anything more than a hallucination. My test would provide nothing in the way of a method to determine how an OBE occurred, but it would very clearly establish that the OBE was a genuine experience out of the body. (And a failure to ever recognize the material on the paper would not, in itself, provide any evidence that an OBE had not occurred. It is a test of limited utility, but if it was successful, it would provide sufficient evidence that an actual event had occurred.) (I will note that we could enhance the quality of the test by using a vide screen instead of a piece of paper. It could be set up to display particular images at particular times so that the images perceived by the OBE subject could be correlatedd to particular events, thus establishing whether the OBE occurred during periods of deep anaesthesia or actual brain death.) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/225 "2007-09-02T04:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=brossa] Missed my edit window; sorry: I’m going to regret getting involved in this, but I read van Lommel’s _Lancet_ paper and I’m shocked that they published it. Because it’s crap. I’m not going to go into a point-by-point, but the methods were apparently made up as they went along, and the interpretation of the results was heavily biased in favor of van Lommel’s theories, IMO. Just one example: van Lommel follows up at 2 years with only 37 of the 282 patients who denied NDE at the initial interview. Four of these 37 patients now claim an NDE. van Lommel states that this is only 1% of patients, when in truth it is 10% of the patients _that he was able to follow up on_. And rather than question whether this 10% new NDE claim is because of ‘false memories’, he takes them at their word and assumes that the first interview was “too soon”. But let’s assume that van Lommel’s theory is correct, that consciousness is an EM signal of some sort that the brain tunes into and which exists independently of the brain. If I close my eyes, I perceive blackness. If my eyes are removed, I am permanently blind. Yet if I have an OBE, supposedly I can see things. Why do I need eyes to see when I am conscious, but not when I am having an OBE or NDE? Why is _anybody_ blind or deaf, since these are apparently phenomena that do not ‘really’ require functioning body structures? [/QUOTE] I have posted many NDEs that were remembered months and/or years after the event. This is not that uncommon. When you are in your body it blocks your spiritual senses, as if you put on a shell covering you with eyes to see, ears to hear, etc., when you leave your body then you can use your spiritual senses. This body also blocks your connection to God, the Oneness making you think you are alone. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/226 "2007-09-02T05:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] More good study material, the evidence mounts. [/QUOTE] I certainly see a mounting body of evidence that some people are heavily invested in wishful thinking. From the quoted link: > [@](#): > > So we need a functioning brain to receive our consciousness into our waking consciousness. And as soon as the function of brain has been lost, like in clinical death or in brain death, with iso-electricity on the EEG, memories and consciousness do still exist, but the reception ability is lost. So far, so good. Since the memories are probably “written” in the brain, either chemically or through charged particles, they will continue in the brain to be brought out when the electromagnetic system is brought back into play. Then > [@](#): > > People can experience their consciousness outside their body, with the possibility of perception out and above their body, with identity, and with heightened awareness, attention, well-structured thought processes, memories and emotions. And they also can experience their consciousness in a dimension where past, present and future exist at the same moment, without time and space, and can be experienced as soon as attention has been directed to it (life review and preview), and even sometimes they come in contact with the “fields of consciousness” of deceased relatives. And later they can experience their conscious return into their body. This is pure speculation without any substantiation. Until some test is devised to demonstrate that the experiences of “consciousness” occur during brain death–a point that has NOT been established–then there is no reason to assume (or even believe) that anything in this quoted passage has any beraing on reality. It is not a furthering of science, but mere speculation based on unproven assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/227 "2007-09-02T10:31:42Z")
All current OBE/NDE research clearly demonstrate that consciousness is alive after the death of the brain and body. From Dr. Peter Fenwick’s collection of veridical OBEs (experiences verified by physicians and staff during surgery) to the research being conducted at several universities. It is this evidence that makes this research unique and worthy of continued study. Below is a quote from the International Association of Near Death Studies: > [@](#): > > –Once a person’s brainwaves have ceased, indicating that all mental activity has stopped – perceiving, thinking, and remembering – how do we explain their accurate perception of events going on around their “deceased” body (both sight and sound), and their accurate reporting of events taking place even at significant distances from their clinically-dead body? > > –If we regard experiencers’ perceptions of dead relatives as just imaginary “wishful thinking”, how can we explain their accurate description of relatives previously unknown to them, yet later verified by living relatives and by civil documents? > > –If the spiritual component of the near-death experience could be explained away as just an extension of the person’s pre-existing belief system, why have confirmed atheists come back after their NDE convinced there is a God? And why have religious believers returned from their NDE with un-orthodox changes to their prior dogmas? Clear evidence has been established that shows consciousness continues to live after the death of the brain and body. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/228 "2007-09-02T11:13:39Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] The NDE claims for an OBE combination are not made for the “light at the end of the tunnel” experiences, but at the claims where a person is still in the room but outside the body, watching their own body from some other point in the room, (hence “out of body experience”). This, not the light at the end of the tunnel with lots of people talking to the subject, is the point under discussion in this thread. The principal claim that **lekatt** holds is that when the brain shuts down, completely, there cannot be a natural explanation for the subject recognizing and relating conversations, medical tools, and events that occurred while the brain is “dead.” The principal response from those who have not been persuaded is that the conversations and clothing and tools that the subject mentions are all available to the person on being brought into the operating room or during the initial phases of anaesthesia, before the brain has been “shut down.” So far, neither side has provided evidence that unequivocally demonstrates their point. One classic case included a subject, [Pamela Reynolds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds'_NDE), who underwent an operation that lasted hours, but the period during the operation when the body was dead appears to have lasted a very few minutes. (Since the operating team was much more interested in completing the operation and saving Ms. Reynolds’s life than in recording events to be compared against a later OBE claim, the timeline is vague enough that each side can claim “SEE! I’m right!”) * * * As to swamis who get buried and resurrected on TV, I will note only that that event occurred about the same time that Uri Geller was getting publicity for his fabulous feat of psychokinesis. [/QUOTE] They have had Swami’s also lower their heart rate and blood pressure (tht were not buried) so they could be almost declared dead, the Swami’s said it takes many years of practice to do this, they are not dead nor were they near death. I can lower my heart rate and have taught my daughter to lower hers, but not to the extent that a Swami would. The show I saw was before Uri Geller. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/229 "2007-09-02T11:19:58Z")
[QUOTE=ForumBot] Wow, I didn’t know the St. Jude thing was snide at all. I thought he was talking about St. Jude’s children’s hospital in Memphis, a free hospital for kids all over the world with tough diseases. My ex-girlfriend had cancer when she was six and they treated her for free. Just rambling. The stuff I just don’t read sometimes. Sweet jesus, people, why must you tell me these things. Medicine just got a lot more scary. [/QUOTE] I misspoke it wasn’t the brain they numb,but the eye,and I had no pain and didn’t need to wear a patch as I did with the first surgery (which was 12 years earlier). I just had to refrain from bending down for a week, and not do yard work. My sight is very much improved. I can now see 20/20 with glasses. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/230 "2007-09-02T12:49:53Z")
[QUOTE=monavis] They have had Swami’s also lower their heart rate and blood pressure (tht were not buried) so they could be almost declared dead, the Swami’s said it takes many years of practice to do this, they are not dead nor were they near death. I can lower my heart rate and have taught my daughter to lower hers, but not to the extent that a Swami would. The show I saw was before Uri Geller. Monavis [/QUOTE] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/231 "2007-09-02T13:19:41Z")
[QUOTE=monavis] They have had Swami’s also lower their heart rate and blood pressure (tht were not buried) so they could be almost declared dead, the Swami’s said it takes many years of practice to do this, they are not dead nor were they near death. I can lower my heart rate and have taught my daughter to lower hers, but not to the extent that a Swami would. The show I saw was before Uri Geller. Monavis [/QUOTE] Yes, I have read about the ability to do this. I read where one was buried for 15 days. There were instruments monitoring his vital signs, his heartbeat lower to one a minute, and respiration one every 30 minutes or so. It was like a state of suspended animation. He came out of it fine and healthy. The importance of this for us is to understand is the control the mind has on the body and therefor the ability to change or lives with will. > **[Chapter 26: The Science of Kriya Yoga - Autobiography of a Yogi](https://www.crystalclarity.com/pages/autobiography-chapter-26-the-science-of-kriya-yoga)** > > The science of Kriya Yoga, mentioned so often in these pages, became widely known in modern India through the instrumentality of Lahiri Mahasaya, my guru’s guru. The Sanskrit root of Kriya is kri, to do, to act and react; the same root is found in... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/232 "2007-09-02T14:04:10Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Yes, I have read about the ability to do this. I read where one was buried for 15 days. There were instruments monitoring his vital signs, his heartbeat lower to one a minute, and respiration one every 30 minutes or so. It was like a state of suspended animation. He came out of it fine and healthy. The importance of this for us is to understand is the control the mind has on the body and therefor the ability to change or lives with will. > **[Chapter 26: The Science of Kriya Yoga - Autobiography of a Yogi](https://www.crystalclarity.com/pages/autobiography-chapter-26-the-science-of-kriya-yoga)** > > The science of Kriya Yoga, mentioned so often in these pages, became widely known in modern India through the instrumentality of Lahiri Mahasaya, my guru’s guru. The Sanskrit root of Kriya is kri, to do, to act and react; the same root is found in... [/QUOTE] Oops, my mistake. When I said “cite”, I meant “cite of an authentic scientific study, _not_ stories told around a campfire.” My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/233 "2007-09-02T14:08:03Z")
Here’s a sample of “science” from **lekatt’s** cite: > [@](#): > > Kriya Yoga is a simple, psychophysiological method by which the human blood is decarbonized and recharged with oxygen. The atoms of this extra oxygen are transmuted into life current to rejuvenate the brain and spinal centers. 1 By stopping the accumulation of venous blood, the yogi is able to lessen or prevent the decay of tissues; the advanced yogi transmutes his cells into pure energy. Elijah, Jesus, Kabir and other prophets were past masters in the use of Kriya or a similar technique, by which they caused their bodies to dematerialize at will. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/234 "2007-09-02T14:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Clear evidence has been established that shows consciousness continues to live after the death of the brain and body. [/QUOTE] Repeating this _ad nauseam_ does not make it true. Note that I am not even arguing agains the possibility. What I am pointing out is that claims that any person has perceived physical events surrounding them at a point where there brain has ceased to function have NOT been verified. There are dozens of anecdotes, but, as with Pam Reynolds, the timelines have not been established. Everything that Pam Reynolds claimed to have experienced could have been the result of her continued functioning after the initial administration of anaesthesia but before the brain was cooled and drained of blood. All other reports–at least all other reports that you have cited–have depended on interviews with collections of people from days to weeks after the event and have never even been documented to the extent that Ms. Reynolds surgery has been documented. In her case, her initial responses to Dr. Sabom surprised him so much that he apparently went back and saved records of the surgery to compare against her claims. Those records, as I have already pointed out, simply do not establish that her OBE iccurred during the brain death part of the surgery. No other interview with persons claiming to have experienced NDEs has even that much information. If you wish to believe that her OBE continued after brain death, you are welcome to do so and even to post that that is your belief. When you post that “Clear evidence has been established that shows consciousness continues to live after the death of the brain”, you are simply making it up. Go back and read your most recent links to “scientific studies.” With the exception of Dr. Sabom, not one of them presents any evidence that the persons quoted know the time of the OBE in relation to the time of any brain activity cessation. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/235 "2007-09-02T17:39:59Z")
In all research and studies of OBE/NDE phenomenon the doctors, surgeons, and staff in attendance witnessed and verified that the patient was clinically dead during the events where the patient accurately described events occuring during the time he was clinically dead. If this were not true then a whole lot of researchers would be collaborating to provide misinformation, which they are not. These researches took place in different countries, at different times, yet all show clear evidence of the consciousness continuing to live after the clinical death of the brain and body. This evidence is further strengthened by the thousands of experiencers’ testimony of their OBE/NDE events. I will post an OBE/NDE experience that clearly shows the patient could “see” even though the patient was never conscious, and at times clinically dead, while in the operating room. > [@](#): > > Question: Just wanted to relate a personal experience. I used to be a 100% skeptic, but this happened to me and now I am more open and I am looking for the truth. Please let me know your thoughts. > I am an emergency room nurse. About a year ago we received a patient by ambulance in full cardiorespiratory arrest. No pulse, no effective cardiac rhythm ( refractory ventricular fibrillation ). Patient had been in arrest for at least 15 minutes prior to arival. CPR/ACLS in progress on arrival. > > To make a long story short, we worked him for about 25 minutes without positive response. The physician in charge stated that we would defibrillate one more time and if no response we would stop. One last shock, and his heart converted to a beating rhythm, and continued to impove from there, later being admitted to intensive care. > > AT NO POINT DURING HIS STAY IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM WAS HE CONSCIOUS. Most of the time he was technically dead. > > The next day, one of the ICU nurses called down and told us the patient wanted to see several of the ER staff. He named several of us by name, and described us to the ICU nurses. He said he wanted to see us in person “to make sure he wasn’t going crazy”. > > During a slow time later that night we went upstairs and he called us by name without introductions. He told a story of floating out of his body, just below the ceiling, watching us attempt resuscitation. He said he knew our names from when we called out to each other while working on him. One thing I found especially fascinating was that he said when we defibrillated ( shocked ) him, he would be pulled back into his body for a few seconds, then end up back floating by the ceiling a few seconds after. The last time we defibbed him he was pulled back in and became unconscious. At this point he had a pulse and improved. > > We have talked quite a bit about it here. Some of the staff think maybe he was actually semi-conscious the whole time, his brain remaining oxegenated and at least partly functional due to effective CPR. Something akin to anesthetized surgical patients retaining the sense of hearing and being able to relate the conversations of the operating team after they have been awakened. > > Others in the group here believe it was a NDE. We reason that this would explain the out-of-body viewpoint and the retention of sight and cognitive abilities by the patient even though he was to all intents and purposes dead when we were together in the ER. There is no other way he could have known our names, either, as his family was not allowed in the room during the resuscitation. > > None of us have any experience in this matter and when I stumbled on this newsgroup I thought I’d post and see what you all thought. > > Answer: He learned that this kind of experience has been seen many times in this group. For those who may think the patient was semi-conscious and listening, please note the author states: “He named several of us by name, and described us to the ICU nurses.” This question is quoted from the alt.consciousness.near-death-exp newsgroup with the permission of the author. He was directed to NDE accounts for further reading. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/236 "2007-09-02T17:47:29Z")
**Monavis** That’s interesting about the swamis but I don’t consider dropping your pulse and BP all that big a deal. Nor do I believe it takes years of training to learn this. Heck, I’ve done it while playing with a drug-store monitor. OTOH, I’d like to see such things verified. Instead of burying the old boy, why not just shove a plastic bag over his head, seal it well around his neck, and wait for a few minutes? I’d think that a test like that would be **much** more believable and less open to trickery. I’d also put serious money that the guy wouldn’t last more than a few minutes before he tore his way out of the bag. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/237 "2007-09-02T17:47:32Z")
**lekatt** , I know you have hundreds of stories. Would you mind not telling us any more of them? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/238 "2007-09-02T18:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] I have posted many NDEs that were remembered months and/or years after the event. This is not that uncommon. When you are in your body it blocks your spiritual senses, as if you put on a shell covering you with eyes to see, ears to hear, etc., when you leave your body then you can use your spiritual senses. This body also blocks your connection to God, the Oneness making you think you are alone. [/QUOTE] I wrote this post far past my bedtime and want to add to it. Our bodies are inhabited by our spiritual selves, the real us, the body blocks us from feeling or remembering our connection with the Oneness, or God, or the Light which is encountered upon the death of the body. The reason for this is learning. The physical is like a school, that operates in time and space to teach us how to focus our thoughts and learn about who we really are. If the body is damaged then we can no longer use the damaged part, but we (our spirit) are never damaged. So in reality the whole physical world including our bodies are a grand illusion used to teach us. We may think we are brilliant, but we’re only in kindergarten in relation to the spiritual world. Now it is very difficult for OBE/NDE experiencers to live in this world with the knowledge they have learned from their experience. It takes years to adjust, and some never do. Those that do adjust try to help others with the knowledge they have. Some are more successful than others. So, it is easy to understand why Jesus and other Master Teachers ask us to look within ourselves for the answers we need. Jesus said: “the Kingdom of God lies within you.” He was right. Whether you believe in God or not, you can still benefit from the spiritual teachings if you so desire. I know this post will not be met with gladness, so if the questions are sincere, I will try to answer them. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/239 "2007-09-02T18:06:40Z")
[QUOTE=Testy] **Monavis** That’s interesting about the swamis but I don’t consider dropping your pulse and BP all that big a deal. Nor do I believe it takes years of training to learn this. Heck, I’ve done it while playing with a drug-store monitor. OTOH, I’d like to see such things verified. Instead of burying the old boy, why not just shove a plastic bag over his head, seal it well around his neck, and wait for a few minutes? I’d think that a test like that would be **much** more believable and less open to trickery. I’d also put serious money that the guy wouldn’t last more than a few minutes before he tore his way out of the bag. Regards Testy [/QUOTE] Why don’t you get a book on the subject, that’s what I do when I want more information. Just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/240 "2007-09-02T18:18:35Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Why don’t you get a book on the subject, that’s what I do when I want more information. Just a suggestion. [/QUOTE] **Lekatt** I used to own dozens of books on subjects such as this. I trained and did the breathing and meditation and believed with all my heart. Then I graduated high school and realized that this wasn’t working for me and that the authors of the books were cons and frauds and that I had been nothing more than a sucker. Since then, I’ve required a bit more than earnest personal testimony to be convinced. Regards Testy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807.md?page=13)