# Scientists recreate Out-of-Body Experience **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 24, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807 "2007-08-24T19:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/101 "2007-08-27T18:30:04Z")
[QUOTE=ForumBot] And your inability to defend your beliefs in any way more meaningful than “nah uh” means you don’t have a damn clue what you’re talking about. [/QUOTE] Don’t remember saying “nah uh” you must learn to be honest before you can learn truth. ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/102 "2007-08-27T19:16:25Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Understand that the spirit world, God, Jesus, Holy Ghost, and whomever you are accustomed to pray to will not do things for you [/quote] So we have agreed that asking god to invervene on our behalf is at best a waste of time. > [@](#): > > So now we begin to pray, we give thanks for what we have first, then we ask for divine guidance, then we pray for others who are sick that they may be comforted How do you expect this to happen? Wouldn’t you be better spending your time praying that less people that get sick, or actually comforting people yourself? > [@](#): > > for those who need love, and divine guidance that they may be consoled, for the world that peace and love be established. So divine intervention. God stops the wars. Say a few words, expect intervention from the skies. And this is distinguishable from magic, how? > [@](#): > > If we have something personal to pray for we ask for a way, a path of understanding we can follow to obtain our personal item. Oh, I get it. You don’t want the treasure, you just want the map to find the X in the sand. Even if god doesn’t bring down His Holy Thumb and point you directly at the treasure and just whispers it in your head, that’s still divine intervention. > [@](#): > > It does work, and works very well. If your goal is to feel warm and fuzzy inside, yeah, it does work. Extremely well. But this warm fuzzy feeling is a wholly _internal_ process. Other people can find similar feelings of peace love and understanding in contemplating rivers; that doesn’t mean rivers have any special power. > [@](#): > > Now you have been lied to about religion and spirituality, not intentionally, but because your “teachers” don’t know what they are talking about. Suggest you learn on your own, it is really the only path to truth. And now the truth comes out. You establish your claim to the true, authentic, higher truth which everybody else just doesn’t get, but your a great misunderstood messiah here to educate our simple, misunderstood ways. Tell me this, hoss. What gives your beliefs the credence necessary to say everyone else is wrong? If I were to put you in a room with a Muslim, a Christian, and a Jew, how would you convince anyone that you hold the monopoly on truth? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/103 "2007-08-27T19:22:26Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Don’t remember saying “nah uh” you must learn to be honest before you can learn truth. [/QUOTE] Or before you can learn Science for that matter. You might want to take your own advice. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/104 "2007-08-27T19:50:05Z")
[QUOTE=ForumBot] So we have agreed that asking god to invervene on our behalf is at best a waste of time. How do you expect this to happen? Wouldn’t you be better spending your time praying that less people that get sick, or actually comforting people yourself? So divine intervention. God stops the wars. Say a few words, expect intervention from the skies. And this is distinguishable from magic, how? Oh, I get it. You don’t want the treasure, you just want the map to find the X in the sand. Even if god doesn’t bring down His Holy Thumb and point you directly at the treasure and just whispers it in your head, that’s still divine intervention. If your goal is to feel warm and fuzzy inside, yeah, it does work. Extremely well. But this warm fuzzy feeling is a wholly _internal_ process. Other people can find similar feelings of peace love and understanding in contemplating rivers; that doesn’t mean rivers have any special power. And now the truth comes out. You establish your claim to the true, authentic, higher truth which everybody else just doesn’t get, but your a great misunderstood messiah here to educate our simple, misunderstood ways. Tell me this, hoss. What gives your beliefs the credence necessary to say everyone else is wrong? If I were to put you in a room with a Muslim, a Christian, and a Jew, how would you convince anyone that you hold the monopoly on truth? [/QUOTE] Never said I hold a monopoly on truth, no one does. You read into posts things that are not there. The spiritual path is not for the wimps, or moral cowards, or those that cut and run at the sign of trouble, no it’s not. It takes great courage and fortitude to want to give back some of what has been given. It takes total honesty, total commitment. It takes a knowledge of love beyond the dualism of this world. It is not for you, maybe when you get as old as I am, and experienced most of what the world has to offer. Maybe then, but I wouldn’t bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/105 "2007-08-27T19:52:34Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Or before you can learn Science for that matter. You might want to take your own advice. [/QUOTE] Science I know, but not the dogma that has grown up around it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/106 "2007-08-27T20:34:56Z")
lekatt, your posts in this thread are the latest proof that you know exactly zero about Science. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/107 "2007-08-27T20:46:13Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] lekatt, your posts in this thread are the latest proof that you know exactly zero about Science. [/QUOTE] Just your opinion matey. ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/108 "2007-08-27T21:23:36Z")
And now **Monty** and **Lekatt** are engaged in a “nah uh” “yeah huh” debate. This characterizes your threads, **lekatt.** > [@lekatt](#): > > The spiritual path is not for the wimps, or moral cowards, or those that cut and run at the sign of trouble, no it’s not. It takes great courage and fortitude to want to give back some of what has been given. It takes total honesty, total commitment. It takes a knowledge of love beyond the dualism of this world. I’m not sure what sort of fucked up rhetoric you’re trying to employ, (rhetoric alone does not an argument make) but I’m sensing a fallacy of false dichotomy, in which all those who aren’t spiritual are are selfish cowards, lacking courage and fortitude. Also, love “beyond this world”? That is a specific claim about secret knowledge, something you have just vehemently denied. > [@](#): > > It is not for you, maybe when you get as old as I am, and experienced most of what the world has to offer. Maybe then, but I wouldn’t bet on it. And maybe if you weren’t a stubborn old geezer stuck in an old-fashioned way of thinking, you would truly see what the world has to offer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/109 "2007-08-27T21:51:45Z")
[QUOTE=ForumBot] And now **Monty** and **Lekatt** are engaged in a “nah uh” “yeah huh” debate. This characterizes your threads, **lekatt.** I’m not sure what sort of fucked up rhetoric you’re trying to employ, (rhetoric alone does not an argument make) but I’m sensing a fallacy of false dichotomy, in which all those who aren’t spiritual are are selfish cowards, lacking courage and fortitude. Also, love “beyond this world”? That is a specific claim about secret knowledge, something you have just vehemently denied. And maybe if you weren’t a stubborn old geezer stuck in an old-fashioned way of thinking, you would truly see what the world has to offer. 😉 [/QUOTE] Yeah, man, you are the bees knees. ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/110 "2007-08-27T21:56:21Z")
I’m on your lawn. Whatcha gonna do about it? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/111 "2007-08-27T23:42:11Z")
[QUOTE=ForumBot] I’m on your lawn. Whatcha gonna do about it? [/QUOTE] Which lawn? Too old to check them all. Just think, some day you will be my age. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/112 "2007-08-27T23:55:52Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Don’t remember saying “nah uh” you must learn to be honest before you can learn truth. [/QUOTE] There’s some irony for you. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/113 "2007-08-27T23:59:59Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] There’s some irony for you. [/QUOTE] Yes, and honesty also. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/114 "2007-08-28T00:08:47Z")
Why are you guys even bothering to respond to him? I’m actually not surprised at how quickly this thread devolved into ‘Nuh uh’ ‘Yuh huh’. C’mon people, he’s barely managing to put forth anything resembling an argument. Maybe if we don’t respond when he says the same thing over and over again and over and over again fails to back any of it up, he won’t do it anymore. He’s in his own little world, and if nothing we’ve said so far can bring him out, nothing we can say ever will. Just leave him alone. Ignore him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/115 "2007-08-28T00:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] Why are you guys even bothering to respond to him? I’m actually not surprised at how quickly this thread devolved into ‘Nuh uh’ ‘Yuh huh’. C’mon people, he’s barely managing to put forth anything resembling an argument. Maybe if we don’t respond when he says the same thing over and over again and over and over again fails to back any of it up, he won’t do it anymore. He’s in his own little world, and if nothing we’ve said so far can bring him out, nothing we can say ever will. Just leave him alone. Ignore him. [/QUOTE] I realize that he isn’t about to change-this is his profession and the only thing he’s got to show that he is “special”. On the other hand, it _is_ our job to fight ignorance, and if we let his claims go unchallenged others might see it as affirmation that we cannot fight his arguments, or even that we agree with him somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/116 "2007-08-28T01:16:03Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] The spiritual path is not for the wimps, or moral cowards, or those that cut and run at the sign of trouble, no it’s not. It takes great courage and fortitude to want to give back some of what has been given. It takes total honesty, total commitment. It takes a knowledge of love beyond the dualism of this world. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Yeah, right. In a nation that wallows in religion like America, being “spiritual” is the path of least resistance. In a culture that fetishizes the word “love” there’s no great “knowledge” required to beat people over the head with the word. And spirituality has nothing to do with giving anything back to anybody. It’s a dead end; a sterile philosophy that gives only to yourself; mental masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/117 "2007-08-28T01:29:15Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] I realize that he isn’t about to change-this is his profession and the only thing he’s got to show that he is “special”. On the other hand, it _is_ our job to fight ignorance, and if we let his claims go unchallenged others might see it as affirmation that we cannot fight his arguments, or even that we agree with him somewhat. [/QUOTE] Other’s have already seen his arguments, time and again. They don’t change, and neither does he. Just keep a link to all the threads he’s ruined in case someone asks. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/118 "2007-08-28T01:31:25Z")
[QUOTE=lekatt] Yes, and honesty also. [/QUOTE] No, if there had been honesty there, it wouldn’t have been ironic. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/119 "2007-08-28T01:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=hotflungwok] Other’s have already seen his arguments, time and again. They don’t change, and neither does he. Just keep a link to all the threads he’s ruined in case someone asks. [/QUOTE] Yes, I am consistant, logic and truth are also consistent. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807/120 "2007-08-28T01:47:12Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] No, if there had been honesty there, it wouldn’t have been ironic. [/QUOTE] Then it wasn’t ironic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scientists-recreate-out-of-body-experience/416807.md?page=7)